Well, remember the clone patrol in "Up the Long Ladder", the people who took only seven kids in "When the Bough Breaks", or those aliens who almost fried Kirk's body in that TOS episode whose title I don't remember? Dubious self-perpetuation methods seem to be a thing on Star Trek.
Most of the Inner Light episode isn't really that engaging while it's in progress. It just has a large emotional payoff at the end.
If that particular payoff moment doesn't appeal to you, I can easily understand it to be a very boring episode, yes.
If that particular payoff moment doesn't appeal to you, I can easily understand it to be a very boring episode, yes.
I must say one of the reasons I liked Far beyond the Stars is a bit of a guilty pleasure of seeing many ds9 actors out of makeup .
Will have to disagree with those on this thread dumping on Inner Light. But admittedly , I do like quiet ,contemplative stories on occession . I did find "the slow parts" engaging with the growing friendships, relationships, community spirit and mystery ( when I first saw it). But I can see why that many may not resonate with those themes within a science fiction show
Will have to disagree with those on this thread dumping on Inner Light. But admittedly , I do like quiet ,contemplative stories on occession . I did find "the slow parts" engaging with the growing friendships, relationships, community spirit and mystery ( when I first saw it). But I can see why that many may not resonate with those themes within a science fiction show
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There's no need to assume that due to The Inner Light being all the things y'all mentioned that anyone who doesn't like it is turned off by those elements in general.
M
mattpa
Guest
I have found it very interesting reading some of the responses.
It comes down to the acting for me I guess. I much prefer 'Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night.' This episode has important themes as well, but I feel the acting is so much better, subtle and yet still very effective.
I like Avery Brooks a lot as Sisko, I just feel he had.a habit of going over the top quite a lot the time.
This is connected to my comment on Duet as well. It's a wonderful episode however the breakdown scene in that episode I also feel is guilty of overacting.
I simply don't believe people act like this in reality, even in extreme conditions, and I find it somewhat distracting and takes me out of the moment.
It comes down to the acting for me I guess. I much prefer 'Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night.' This episode has important themes as well, but I feel the acting is so much better, subtle and yet still very effective.
I like Avery Brooks a lot as Sisko, I just feel he had.a habit of going over the top quite a lot the time.
This is connected to my comment on Duet as well. It's a wonderful episode however the breakdown scene in that episode I also feel is guilty of overacting.
I simply don't believe people act like this in reality, even in extreme conditions, and I find it somewhat distracting and takes me out of the moment.
I love “Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night”! But I suspect there might be a slight bit of double standard going on here, because that episode has some absolutely glorious overacting from Marc Alaimo as Dukat. He chews every last drop of drama out of each line of dialog, and it’s so wonderful! Just like Avery Brooks he can be subtle and quiet when it serves the scene … or loud, over-the-top and intense when the moment asks for it.
As for that breakdown scene in “Duet” — yeah, that’s some incredible acting! I get goosebumps even thinking about it. And no, people don’t really act like that in reality. But that’s not reality, it’s a TV show with some healthy dash of theatre thrown in the mix. I totally get how some viewers are thrown off by this style of acting, and we’ve certainly seen less and less of that on the small screen since that episode aired, so future audiences will likely be even more alienated by it than you are now. I for my part love that kind of stuff. Not because of any claim to being realistic, but because of its intensity and power.
If budget weren't an issue, then how might the episodes really come across? A lot easier as any old CGI nowadays can sell the ideas more easily, but how much exposition can sell what isn't shown? Then again, we had a handful of extras kidnap Picard and that worked...
"Bough" is only constrained by season 1's budget limitation so they had to put the blinders on. Imagining if they nicked 400 kiddies or whatever the ship's complement is, then handing them over to how many Aldeans? Of all the stories, this one I've got the most sympathy for.
The clone patrol (
nice term ) was also a neat way of dealing with costs in terms of number of extras, especially if the number of identical siblings is low and there's a problem with dwindling population due to their genetic whoopsie. (Yeah, two colonies branching from the same root species, with each being the exact opposite of the other made for an oversimplified and too-tidy solution, but it's better than having the remainder of TNG's run being limited to watching Riker cleaning feet every week while character actor Barrie Ingham overacts with enough amazing charisma despite it all.)TOS... "That Which Survives". Yup. That one also had no budget, but it was in the latter half of season three. The problem sticks out far worse, or - in universe - the computer the Kolandans (sp?) used was an impressively pitiful one. Especially when future-technology is concerned and yet their security 'puter only made copies of one person, not different images, and saved the big trick of producing multiple copies until the very end when we all know that said 'puter should have made all four copies at once and be done with the perceived infiltration that much sooner. Even by 1969, it's too much a stretch - for a story I still find entertaining despite its issues. Still a good episode overall and the destructive nature is tied to a person's unique DNA - a clever idea that's also woefully undersold, but one has to roll with a lot.
Number of kids wasn't "Bough's" biggest problem... it was the sheer solvavility of the problem: all anyone (Riker, Picard, Crusher, whoever) had to do was offer to trade the Enterprise's seven children for hundreds of Aldean-produced replacements. I've often said that the Aldeans' sterility should have been permanent, which would have made Picard's use of force necessary. And, given the "take care of your ozone layer" message some real teeth.
The clone patrol (
Maybe, though given the sheer number of extras among the Brinloidi, it barely matters. Just dress them in different clothes, and no one will notice. And, this is just weird: why did the clone patrol produce adult clones? You shorten their lifespan by 25% or so, and create adult-sized people who cannot walk, talk, or care for themselves (life experience is not coded in our genes, no matter what you see in "Assassin's Creed").
Simple answer: because they didn't want to have Riker vaporizing babies.
A strong 'no' from me. Not overrated at all and still intensely powerful, relevant and resonant in today's climate.
Oh, and Brooks's performance?
Superlative.
Oh, and Brooks's performance?
Superlative.
I'm glad there is a recentish thread on this as I want to apologise to Far Beyond the Stars for not appreciating it more until now.
I'm re-evaluating many episodes now I'm watching in my 40s rather than my teens for my first watch, and likely I last saw these episodes at least 14 years ago.
Firstly OP I get where you're coming from. I recently posted about how The Visitor still does nothing for me. And Far Beyond the Stars originally I thought was a cute idea but I never 'felt it'. I even found Sisko a bit too much as you say, perhaps because I'm not used to Trek being that emotional and in your face.
But on my rewatch last night... wow. Far Beyond the Stars really impressed me this time.
I think some of that due to who I am now. I'm a huge New York fan now and I love that era, I love that music... and it was so well executed. None of the usual sets redressed, they had some great sets from Benny's apartment to the writers' room. And the street sets were very well done too. It felt very 'real'.
I always got the novelty of the cast as other people, but this time I really felt it. What an amazing opportunity and treat to see them all together and out of makeup. I think it was brave, I don't think as a younger person I really clocked what a GIFT this was. And you can really see the cast laps it up. It's why this is the best collection of actors there will ever be on television.
In terms of the story of racial injustice, I sadly as an adult 'get' this more too now. Seeing the police brutality, shooting a black man dead... well, glad to see society has moved on from that! I think it told its story well without being too heavy handed.
And as to Avery Brooks and that scene... well I think it's meant to be uncomfortable. But actually I saw it for what it was this time. Not just a man that was fed up with the injustice and seeing his friend shot and then beaten to an inch of his life... having his hopes setup then dashed. But a man that was on the edge, between two time periods... so consumed by his story that the line between him and Sisko was tenuous and it was just the end of it.
I'm so pleased to get to enjoy this episode again and uprate it in my personal rankings.
Only disappointment was no chance for Andy Robinson to take part. In fact if Sisko's father hadn't been there almost randomly I think he'd have done the preacher very well.
I'm re-evaluating many episodes now I'm watching in my 40s rather than my teens for my first watch, and likely I last saw these episodes at least 14 years ago.
Firstly OP I get where you're coming from. I recently posted about how The Visitor still does nothing for me. And Far Beyond the Stars originally I thought was a cute idea but I never 'felt it'. I even found Sisko a bit too much as you say, perhaps because I'm not used to Trek being that emotional and in your face.
But on my rewatch last night... wow. Far Beyond the Stars really impressed me this time.
I think some of that due to who I am now. I'm a huge New York fan now and I love that era, I love that music... and it was so well executed. None of the usual sets redressed, they had some great sets from Benny's apartment to the writers' room. And the street sets were very well done too. It felt very 'real'.
I always got the novelty of the cast as other people, but this time I really felt it. What an amazing opportunity and treat to see them all together and out of makeup. I think it was brave, I don't think as a younger person I really clocked what a GIFT this was. And you can really see the cast laps it up. It's why this is the best collection of actors there will ever be on television.
In terms of the story of racial injustice, I sadly as an adult 'get' this more too now. Seeing the police brutality, shooting a black man dead... well, glad to see society has moved on from that! I think it told its story well without being too heavy handed.
And as to Avery Brooks and that scene... well I think it's meant to be uncomfortable. But actually I saw it for what it was this time. Not just a man that was fed up with the injustice and seeing his friend shot and then beaten to an inch of his life... having his hopes setup then dashed. But a man that was on the edge, between two time periods... so consumed by his story that the line between him and Sisko was tenuous and it was just the end of it.
I'm so pleased to get to enjoy this episode again and uprate it in my personal rankings.
Only disappointment was no chance for Andy Robinson to take part. In fact if Sisko's father hadn't been there almost randomly I think he'd have done the preacher very well.
Nope.
And as somebody who will nitpick every little episode, "Far" holds up extremely well. Even other classics, like "The Visitor", have some plot hole or issue thatdoesn't hold up at all (e.g. stranger who has a thing for Jake shows up, remember that Jake is a writer for a living, listens to him tell stories about his dad that get increasingly far-fetched, now has ideation that committing suicide will bring dad back to life, yet she doesn't call the emergency line. As the audience, we all know Jake and his situation. She doesn't. The plot fails to remember that it's her perspective that also needs to be addressed and not just by having her sitting there like a bobblehead. Not even Kirk or Spock, in her position, would be bobbleheading either and they've seen the weirdest stuff in the cosmos for sure. I do need to rewatch this one as, on initial viewing, it hit all the emotional stimulation anyone could want, but then come the rewatches.
It's one of the strongest episodes as well as being one of the best episodes.
But I'm also a big fan of "For the Uniform" for Sisko stopping a multi-murdering psychopathic murderer, "In The Pale Moonlight" and also conniving to be like Kirk and break the rules for a greater good (e.g. saving the known galaxy from a bigger threat, not just his bestie and only by luck does a whale probe conveniently appear a movie later), and some of the ideas that "Let He Who Is Without Sin" tried to explore, so what do I know... all I know is, Sisko is the best captain and I eat large gobs of crunchy peanut butter directly form the jar, because why not. But I digress, DS9 went the extra mile and is a true successor to TOS. (TNG is in other ways, but for a while it was going out of its way to pretend the universe was shinier and happier than what it really was.)
And as somebody who will nitpick every little episode, "Far" holds up extremely well. Even other classics, like "The Visitor", have some plot hole or issue thatdoesn't hold up at all (e.g. stranger who has a thing for Jake shows up, remember that Jake is a writer for a living, listens to him tell stories about his dad that get increasingly far-fetched, now has ideation that committing suicide will bring dad back to life, yet she doesn't call the emergency line. As the audience, we all know Jake and his situation. She doesn't. The plot fails to remember that it's her perspective that also needs to be addressed and not just by having her sitting there like a bobblehead. Not even Kirk or Spock, in her position, would be bobbleheading either and they've seen the weirdest stuff in the cosmos for sure. I do need to rewatch this one as, on initial viewing, it hit all the emotional stimulation anyone could want, but then come the rewatches.
It's one of the strongest episodes as well as being one of the best episodes.
But I'm also a big fan of "For the Uniform" for Sisko stopping a multi-murdering psychopathic murderer, "In The Pale Moonlight" and also conniving to be like Kirk and break the rules for a greater good (e.g. saving the known galaxy from a bigger threat, not just his bestie and only by luck does a whale probe conveniently appear a movie later), and some of the ideas that "Let He Who Is Without Sin" tried to explore, so what do I know... all I know is, Sisko is the best captain and I eat large gobs of crunchy peanut butter directly form the jar, because why not. But I digress, DS9 went the extra mile and is a true successor to TOS. (TNG is in other ways, but for a while it was going out of its way to pretend the universe was shinier and happier than what it really was.)
Me too... but why they chose to do the dreadful Blaze of Glory I don't know. It undermined it.
Jake had allowed for that. He said that if she had chosen any other day, he would have sent her on her way without an explanation. But here she was, at this moment when Jake's time was almost up, when there would be no opportunity for the future paramedics to show up and administer an antidote.
Besides, given Jake's advanced age, he might have gotten the poison legally. It was obviously pretty sophisticated, given that Jake knew that it would terminate his life at an exact point in time. It's possible that a man of sound mind, which he was, would be allowed to depart life on his own terms in the 24th century.
Might have been the Prophets' work? Or "Q"'s unspoken cousin, "R"?
True. Even Dr Pulaski had admitted that "community" was something the 24th century had gotten away from. Apart from when it hadn't, of course
.Far Beyond the Stars is an odd one. It is "overrated"? No. It's a great story.
Is it an episode I turn to when I want to watch DS9? Also, no. I probably haven't seen since it aired in the 90s.
To me it's one of those things that I watched, appreciated for what it was, note the quality of it... and also have no interested in experiencing it again.
Is it an episode I turn to when I want to watch DS9? Also, no. I probably haven't seen since it aired in the 90s.
To me it's one of those things that I watched, appreciated for what it was, note the quality of it... and also have no interested in experiencing it again.
I've only seen small parts of 'Far Beyond the Stars' and not watched the entire thing that I can remember before now. I've just watched the whole thing and it was astonishingly wonderful. The only thing I have to say against it is that Benny has to be 'saved' from the negative world he's in by waking up as Benjamin Sisko.
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