You might wanna learn a thing or two about your own native language before mentioning things like
simple grammar to other people...
Presumptive: And error in grammar does not there for mean one has no knowledge of grammar. If you look harder you will notice there are occasional spelling errors aswell.
But these differences are only in minor details. The foreheads of klingons are a much bigger change, and yet no one complained about them, did they?
Whether minor or major the contradictions exist.
What others complained about isn't really the point of the thread. That being the case I understand what you're trying to say but it's a round-a-about irrelevancy.
because in Enterprise, the NX part of the registry referred to the class of the ship. In Federation ships, the NX designated the ship as an experimental ship (Not for the first ship of the class. Excelsior was changed to NCC-2000 in Trek 6).
NOTED: And accepted.
However we know registries are progressive. Star Fleet only issues retro registries to honor past registries and names. The Dauntless is presented as a new Star Fleet Starship...and experimental vessel.
According to the information you've used the Dauntless in Voyager should have been named NX-80100, which is in keeping with the progressive use of registries....AND in keeping with the experimental designation for a new class.
Logically it is appropriate to conclude that the ship is being presented as an experimental ship which is also paying homage to a former ship which is further evidence by the use of the Alphanumeric.
Again a minor mistake. Not enough to say that an entire show loses it's canon status for.
Strawman:
I never made the arguement that the show loses it's status as canon because of the error.
AT this point is a precedent not a mistake.
ENTERPRISE would be the mistake.
Is it also a failure that the holodeck didn't ask if Scotty wanted to see the bridge of the aircraft carrier he beamed Uhura out of in trek 4?
Possibly.
Scott does say "My old ship." at the out set, though.
But speculation at this point could be biased.
I could reason through speculation that the computer knew based from the initial statement that Scott served in Star Fleet but that reasoning could go both ways to isolate away the NX-01.
My point is that the number stated is a minor detail.
If they started changing what powered the Enterprise, then it would be a big detail. Like I said before, there's no need to kick Enterprise out of Canon just because it disagrees with a minor detail.
It's the issue of if a series should exist according to canon or not. That would indicate a major indicator, the biggest in fact that there is.
The computer stated that there had been five Federation ships named Enterprise. That is True. NX-01 was not a Federation ship. Do you think it referred to EVERY ships named Enterprise that ever existed? it didn't include the aircraft carrier, the sailing ship, the space shuttle or the ring ship. Why do you think it ought to have referred to NX-01? Particularly when the computer stated Federation ships?
Yes the computer said Federation.
But Scotty didn't say Federation.
The computer made an assumption.
That assumption was not in favor of the NX-01.
That tells me more than entertaining your line of questioning.
It refers back to the writers automatically because it is linearly inexplicable in the fiction.
I think the point is that if you are going to ***** about Enterprise for certain things, why don't you ***** about Voyager when it did the same things?
Simple, it's not the point of the thread.
Secondly, nothing in TOS questions whether Voyager as a series should exist.
I would think that would be obvious.
The entire series of Enterprise doesn't fit? I don't see how you can say that. If I name a thing from Enterprise, could you tell me how it doesn't fit in with the rest of the series' canon?
Elaborate upon your request.
Huh?> could you rephrase this?
Yes that was definitely an error.
"There was no Enterprise in Star Fleet except one...NCC 1701 and it's name sake ships that share the same registry modified by alphanumeric.
As I said before, how can you know for sure that it is wrong when we are dealing with a federation and non-federation registry system? Hell, they changed the stardate system between TOS and TNG, they changed the warp scale, so why couldn't they change the registry system?
As I explained above the ship is Star Fleet.
The Federation doesn't have a registry system separate from Star Fleet.
You've committed a misnomer.
Could you quote the line please?
The full line is available in the thread of this sub forum named
"2166 According to Spock"
You'd have found it much more believable if NX-01 was aremd with nothing more than lasers and nuclear bombs?
Anything can be believable with the appropriate explanation.
This isn't about believable, it's about consistency of canon which Enterprise is not as a series.
B****ing about the registry system, and that TOS describes vessels more primitive than what we see in Enterprise IS a handful. And not much of a handful.
If you find the subject unpleasant to listen to you are under no obligation to continue to execute your defense of the series to me.
Does that mean that you decry "Darmok" because you see phaser fire coming from the foward photon torpedo tube? That you think Encounter at Farpoint never happened because Data said he graduated in the class of '78?
It means I acknowledge the scene as an error in SFX.
In the case of a ship that never was supposed to be, I regard the entire series as an error of the Producers of Star Trek. That would be the logical equivalence.
No, they changed some details. Why do you think that som,e details should represent an entire series? Can I pick and choose my own details and do the same thing? because I can pick some that have Enterprise match up with the other shows.
This is a foregone conclusion.
Once again. The ship is named Enterprise, Precedent of Canon has always omitted the NX-01, If it was not in canon then it did not exist and frequently there is little room for interpreting the inclusion of the ship. And the Registry of the ship "apparently" already belonged to another ship.
Further, this "Dauntless" that existed before with no one objects to or mentions further implies that is was a non consequential vessel in the span of history...forgettable. That is anything but what the Enterprise is as the NX-01
They were pivotal in Temperal Cold War, made first contact with the Romulans, Klingons, and Borg, saved Earth from the Xindi Deathstar, had the first Vulcan in Star Fleet who gave birth to the first Vulcan human hybrid, and it's Captain helped inaugurate the United Federation of Planets.
Suspension of belief began long before the series started but belief unless earnest can't hope to cover over all these mistakes by the producers.
Their intention was obviously to set aside and ignore TOS.
Every series of Star Trek violates things that have come before. Why is it that you only have a problem with Enterprise for it?
Despite your implicitness, these are not minor details such as head ridges and middle names that are rarely used. It is an entire series that contradicts the history laid out but the original series.
Both TNG, DS9 and VOY portrayed TOS accurately without fear of making itself illegitimate. ENT also did so in a last ditch attempt to save itself. But if it had started out with the same care then it's run would not have been so tumultuous. It would have had the support of the majority of the fans. It would have been a more challenging series, more creative and fresh concept for Trek to embrace.
Rather than accept it's roots, Enterprise cast them aside. Is there really a problem with this? Well other than alienating the FANdom and fueling discussion such as this, no. But it was a sign of the laziness of the creators and producers behind the show, revealing they apparently only wanted to dress up the past in the garb of the 23rd century instead of blazing a new path.
That Laziness was manifested in the scripts by writing and the desperate FAN sevrice to patch up their error with poor stitching to make Vulcans more logical, to legitimize and reconcile TOS with ENT with Mirror universe plots, in other words using TOS to save ENT...ironically because they went out of there way to ignore TOS.
Then cancellation.
Poetic justice, one might say.
None of this would have been an issue if they had good scripts and good writers. Maybe they just weren't given good material. ENTERPRISE was the show that perhaps should have grown up from VOY leaving behind the perfect little endings and characters for something more realistic or more relate-able to the 21 century man.
It was an opportunity to garner a much larger amount of viewers. Look at the universe they had to work with. A nuclear Holocaust of global proportions, The end of typical legal avenues, drug proliferation, resolving communism and religious distention, Genetic tampering, cleaning up the planet and preparing for space in a planetary effort...
These are EPIC movie level plot devices just individually. ENTERPRISE...had access to all of them at once. This was Earth Rising from the Ash.... Trial by Fire kind of stuff.
Instead we got ENTERPRISE.
Of course it was canceled. IMO, it was boring and uninspired, which are far greater crimes than violating canon, but it did both.
I can only imagine what you think of mine. (I can assure you that I do not sound like I have been huffing helium.)
