Is Dollhouse any good?

[Ubik]

Let's put it this way: our standards have been set by Star Trek TNG, DS9, Doctor Who, BSG, and now Firefly. We're looking for a show that good.

If you want more SF shows on the same level as those, I'd suggest Babylon 5 and Farscape.

Farscape? Really? I've heard literally nothing about it. You would say it's that good? (That's the one with the Henson workshop, right?)

I saw the first 3 seasons or so of Babylon 5 many, many years ago, and thought it paled in comparison to Deep Space Nine. The people playing the four ambassadors were all fantastic, but the actors playing the actual crew (especially that second-in-command) were mostly quite mediocre, I thought.

Anyway, maybe I should be asking people about Farscape too....

 

[RoJoHen]

Farscape? Really? I've heard literally nothing about it. You would say it's that good?

You must not pay much attention around here then.

Farscape is fantastic, and it has many fans on this board.

 

[Skywalker]

Let's put it this way: our standards have been set by Star Trek TNG, DS9, Doctor Who, BSG, and now Firefly. We're looking for a show that good.

If you want more SF shows on the same level as those, I'd suggest Babylon 5 and Farscape.

Farscape? Really? I've heard literally nothing about it. You would say it's that good? (That's the one with the Henson workshop, right?)

It's better than some of the shows you mentioned as having set your standard.

 

[Kaijima]

I really appreciate Dollhouse because it delivered some of the best character payoff moments I've seen. While the show was rushed and condensed and suffered for it, it was clear that they did come up with some fantastic character arc concepts, and at least a few of those got a chance to play out well. Everything related to Adelle and Topher was fantastic to the (extremely) bittersweet end, and they were probably the best defined and explored characters in the show, tho ironically they were not the stars.

Also, Dollhouse is really one of the first bits of mainstream science fiction - mainstream as in something making on primetime television - to start to finally explore the idea of technology and the mind seriously. Brainswapping and mind transfer hooey is an old tired trope of cheezeball sci-fi and bad comic books, but it was clear Dollhouse was taking more of a stab at cyberpunk, post-cyberpunk, and transhumanist SF and it did a damn good job of it. It was also one of the most determinedly ambiguous storylines ever; the moral compass in Dollhouse is ripped right off the wall and stomped flat on the ground into tiny pieces. In that sense, it was a very honest and even stone-cold take on the fact that we don't have real moral answers for the potential complications of what may be a very real and coming technology.

After watching the show to its conclusion, I don't think one can simply categorize much of what happened in it as black or white, good or evil, or even sane or insane. The concepts the show wanted to deal with are out there and have profound implications.

The thing is, a lot of the overt plotting in the show is inconsistent and the pacing is all the hell over the place precisely because they seemed unsure how fast or slow to spool the real story out - then finished up in a rush once it was clear season 2 was it. In the end, the result is a show that you don't always enjoy from moment to moment, and can come away with some poor impressions from a number of episodes, yet you cannot stop thinking about and will remember for a laundry list of particular moments.

Ironically for what the Joss Whedon Hate Force would try to claim, the show had the least number of Whedon stereotypes in it, IMHO. This may be because Topher Brinks is essentially the entire Whedon continuum wrapped up in one package, so anything more would be overkill.

 

[WillsBabe]

No one's seemed to have mentioned Tahmho Penikett yet. Tahmho in his suit, Tahmho without his shirt, Tahmho in his itty bitty boxing shorts. That's all good.

 

[Forbin]

Let's put it this way: our standards have been set by Star Trek TNG, DS9, Doctor Who, BSG, and now Firefly. We're looking for a show that good.

If you want more SF shows on the same level as those, I'd suggest Babylon 5 and Farscape.

Farscape? Really? I've heard literally nothing about it. You would say it's that good? (That's the one with the Henson workshop, right?)

I saw the first 3 seasons or so of Babylon 5 many, many years ago, and thought it paled in comparison to Deep Space Nine. The people playing the four ambassadors were all fantastic, but the actors playing the actual crew (especially that second-in-command) were mostly quite mediocre, I thought.

Anyway, maybe I should be asking people about Farscape too....

First, Farscape is one of the greatest sci fi space operas ever, but it requires a tolerance for WAY over the top wackiness. The show can go from dire sturm and drang to outright looney tunes (literally!) episode by episode. But you come to really care about those people, and there are some truly stunning plot arcs and far out concepts that Trek wouldn't dare try.

B5 - well, if you've seen season three, you've seen one of its two best seasons (the other being 4), so I guess that's that. I just personally feel it's right up there at the top of the TV SF heap with DS9, Stargate, Farscape, Firefly, Alien Nation... Yes the acting could be spotty, but nobody did big plot arcs like B5. The way I always put it in the B5/DS9 discussion is that B5 did the big story arcs better, and DS9 did the little personal character stories better. Depends on which you prefer, but I think both shows stand almost equal.

 

[bigdaddy]

I haven't heard a lot about Farscape besides a friend without a TV said the one show he would buy the DVDs to is Farscape.

So I finally bought it on sale and there are a ton of fans for it here. It is simply one of the best sic fi shows ever. It has more character development in 10 episodes that Stargate had in 10 years. It is daring and evolving in was TV rarely is. The show is so bizarre and far fetched but it feels more real that Star Trek or Stargate.

 

[Bishop76]

Farscape is a fun show, but I wouldn't call it one of the best out there. Definitely worth a watch, but one of the weaker ones of those listed.

I think Babylon 5 was probably the best, though. DS9 was good, but it was like B5-lite. Sure, it had the bigger budget and hence, the better sets, effects, and actors, but Babylon 5 did story and character much better, in my opinion. Not that I hate or dislike DS9, I just think it was the lesser of the two.

 

[zakkrusz]

I just finished the series via Netflix last month and liked it a lot. I'd recommend it.

 

[saturn5]

Eliza's probably not going to win any Oscars, it's true, but she's no worse than a thousand other actresses her age. And hell, I could watch her for an hour if she was just sitting on a couch eating cheetos...

... which would actually be more interesting than an episode of Tru Calling.

Yeah, once they ditched 'client fantasy of the week' it got a lot better (much as Angel did). And Eliza is so gorgeous you could forgive her anything, I forgive her The New Guy just because of her bikini fashion parade

Tru Calling like Dollhouse was just getting going. If we'd seen to the end of the second season we'd have had some storylines that would have lifted it up. According to the producers Tru's new boyfriend who she saved when she wasn't supposed to would become obsessed with mortality after his near death experience and eventually become a serial killer who she has to shoot dead. Harrison would discover his dad was helping Jack and then face the dilemma of whether to tell Tru. Davies fake girlfriend (now on CSI) would actually develop real love for him but he'd find out she did kill her abusive husband and have to decide whether to turn her in or not. Tru's 12 year old half sister would be the latest corpse to ask for Tru's help. Tru saves her and when Jack tries to stop her Tru's dad kills him. The final scene of season 2 would be Jack's corpse asking Tru for help which would certainly have got me watching season 3!

 

[Forbin]

The problem I found with Tru Calling was that every character was developed EXCEPT the title character. I liked Harrison, I liked Davis, and both of them had deep and interesting characters. The ONLY thing they ever gave Tru to do was run around trying to save the corpse of the week. We never got to know the girl herself, and thus Eliza never got any character bits to chew on. That's a hell of a flaw, for a series to not develop its title character.

 

[saturn5]

The problem I found with Tru Calling was that every character was developed EXCEPT the title character. I liked Harrison, I liked Davis, and both of them had deep and interesting characters. The ONLY thing they ever gave Tru to do was run around trying to save the corpse of the week. We never got to know the girl herself, and thus Eliza never got any character bits to chew on. That's a hell of a flaw, for a series to not develop its title character.

I think if they'd continued with the storylines the producers outlined we'd have seen plenty of development. Apparently Zach Galifinakis was notourious for smoking cannabis on set and used to row with the writers all the time.

Tru Calling was always a show that felt half finished to me, the way the cafe Tru hung out in (with it's GORGEOUS waitresses) was just called the 'Central Cafe' and that Tru's surname was Davis whilst she worked with a character called Davies made me think they hadn't put enough thought into it all

 

[Deckerd]

No one's seemed to have mentioned Tahmho Penikett yet. Tahmho in his suit, Tahmho without his shirt, Tahmho in his itty bitty boxing shorts. That's all good.

yes they have

 

[saturn5]

QFT!

No one outacted Eliza, she's a gifted girl.

Reasons to watch Dollhouse, firstly, Eliza as whipcracking dominatrix Echo. Secondly....well isn't my first point enough?

Too quote Billy Joel: "It's just a fantasy, it's not the real thing."

Whipcracking dominatrix isn't a far cry from playing Faith and still tells me her acting range is limited.

Actually to judge by Faith's season 7 story about her dressing as a naughty schoolgirl and getting whipped I'd have thought she was submissive?

 

[exodus]

Farscape is a fun show, but I wouldn't call it one of the best out there. Definitely worth a watch, but one of the weaker ones of those listed.

I think Babylon 5 was probably the best, though. DS9 was good, but it was like B5-lite. Sure, it had the bigger budget and hence, the better sets, effects, and actors, but Babylon 5 did story and character much better, in my opinion. Not that I hate or dislike DS9, I just think it was the lesser of the two.

IMO B5 dropped the ball allot with many of the characters that showed up in starring roles and ended up never being used. Like Na'Toth & Warren Keffer, while having others over play their parts, like Zathros. Let's not even speak on what a lame character Byron was.

 

[saturn5]

Farscape is a fun show, but I wouldn't call it one of the best out there. Definitely worth a watch, but one of the weaker ones of those listed.

I think Babylon 5 was probably the best, though. DS9 was good, but it was like B5-lite. Sure, it had the bigger budget and hence, the better sets, effects, and actors, but Babylon 5 did story and character much better, in my opinion. Not that I hate or dislike DS9, I just think it was the lesser of the two.

IMO B5 dropped the ball allot with many of the characters that showed up in starring roles and ended up never being used. Like Na'Toth & Warren Keffer, while having others over play their parts, like Zathros. Let's not even speak on what a lame character Byron was.

Yes he was although it was nice to see Pat Tallman get more screentime

 

[Sindatur]

Farscape is a fun show, but I wouldn't call it one of the best out there. Definitely worth a watch, but one of the weaker ones of those listed.

I think Babylon 5 was probably the best, though. DS9 was good, but it was like B5-lite. Sure, it had the bigger budget and hence, the better sets, effects, and actors, but Babylon 5 did story and character much better, in my opinion. Not that I hate or dislike DS9, I just think it was the lesser of the two.

IMO B5 dropped the ball allot with many of the characters that showed up in starring roles and ended up never being used. Like Na'Toth & Warren Keffer, while having others over play their parts, like Zathros. Let's not even speak on what a lame character Byron was.

N'Toth was one of those real life unavoidable things. The first actress (if I remember correctly) couldn't handle the makeup, and he recast her, but, that didn't work out, so he kinda had to dispense with the character, you can't really recast a second time. Keffer, was forced on JMS by Studio interfence, and eh served his purpose as the source of the Shadow Ship recording. Byron and the whole Telepath Colony arc, wouldn't msot likely turned out better if Claudia Black hadn't been a S5 signing issue, and if S5 was more a certainty, and the Telepath Arc would've been started at the end of S4, in a more smooth manner

 

[Lindley]

IMO B5 dropped the ball allot with many of the characters that showed up in starring roles and ended up never being used. Like Na'Toth & Warren Keffer

Well, I can understand those two cases. (Minor spoilers.)

Na'Toth was just a very unfortunate case; the original actress couldn't continue the role due to makeup allergies, and the replacement just wasn't working, so the character was dropped.

Keffer was only there because the network demanded a fighter pilot in the cast. Now, I agree that given that he was there he could have been used better, but it's not like the actor was all that great anyway....

 

[exodus]

IMO B5 dropped the ball allot with many of the characters that showed up in starring roles and ended up never being used. Like Na'Toth & Warren Keffer

Well, I can understand those two cases. (Minor spoilers.)

Na'Toth was just a very unfortunate case; the original actress couldn't continue the role due to makeup allergies, and the replacement just wasn't working, so the character was dropped.

Keffer was only there because the network demanded a fighter pilot in the cast. Now, I agree that given that he was there he could have been used better, but it's not like the actor was all that great anyway....

Yeah, but it felt tacked on by the end of the series when they finally think enough to give an explaination to were she went.


True, but romantic interest for somebody still could have given Keffer something to do. If he's going to be the pretty boy, then play up that factor. It would have given the audience a little more emotional impact when his fate is revealed.

Regardless of the skills of the actors themselves, the characters deserved better or shouldn't have been cast in the opening credits as if they were going to be crucial.

 

[WillsBabe]

No one's seemed to have mentioned Tahmho Penikett yet. Tahmho in his suit, Tahmho without his shirt, Tahmho in his itty bitty boxing shorts. That's all good.

yes they have

Well done!