I was thinking a cover of Kenny Login's Dangerzone performed by Beyonce.Nah, it's gotta be 'Ray of Light' by Madonna, innit?
Is Disney "Star Wars" universe imploding?
- Thread starter starsuperion
- Start date
Ripley was a fantastic, iconic character who was also absurdly capable beyond all reasonable measure given her credentials as presented.
The problem isn't having your own interpretation, it's turning those interpretations and gut feelings into factual assessments which you then insist on throwing repetitively at people in a way that is clearly not even remotely intended to be constructive, merely inflammatory. If that's your subjective feeling, fine, but you are presenting it as both factual and a source of provocation for no reason other than to disrupt and antagonise, whilst knowingly throwing a bone to the many people out there who will happily attack Rey using much the same arguments as an openly sexist agenda.
You can't possibly claim at this point you have been fair or even handed in the way you have compared Luke and Rey, the differences between them (if they exist at all) are miniscule, but the standards by which they are judged are planets apart. Of course Rey is absurdly talented, she's supposed to be a prodigy in a film series which specifically focuses on several such prodigies. The problem is that lack of realism (if such a term has any meaning at all when applied to the relative talents of various superhuman people wielding a mystical force whilst fighting for control of an alien galaxy) is disproportionately condemned or accepted with a clear bias.
That bias may be based on nostalgia, may be based on relative youth and experience at the points of viewing. In either case it clearly and unambiguously favours the male characters and your arguments (such as they are) are word for word the same as those used by the several people who are simply objecting to a female led franchise, even down to the use of gendered terminology (Mary Sue).
Can you not see why people (yes, including myself) are so determinedly attacking your posts given that context?
Despite Luke having a few days of training and soundly defeating someone much more powerful.
You assumed wrong. Remember when Yoda said "too old to begin the training!"? Remember when Luke got his ass kicked trying to saber fight Vader in Empire? And that was after he at least got SOME training from Yoda, unlike Rey who was swinging the saber around with none.
Regardless of the semantics on the term "Mary Sue", Rey simply should not have gone from nothing to a black-belt. I get that it's generational, though, as it reflects the ADD/entitlement attitude of millennials.
Classic hero's journey requires the woodshed. Wax on, wax off, eye of the tiger, level 0, etc...
Do people find it boring? Well, maybe the same people who like watching those "Lord of the Rings in 3 minutes" youtube clips. If all you care about is how it ends, why watch a movie in the first place? It's supposed to be a journey and it's supposed to be difficult.
Like Luke's three days on Degobah?
Yes, you guessed it, we saw Rey sleep twice during her training with Luke, whereas whereas there's a case his own training with Yoda might have stretched to three days.
Therefore if the stars align and we squint we get Luke having one extra day training compared to Rey and there are several "if's" required for even that scenario to hold up.
Therefore if you are the belief that mastering the mystical fictional disciplines of force mastery is unrealistic in the (possibly as little as) two days Rey gets, what makes the (possibly as many as) three Luke gets somehow acceptable?
Of course none of it is really believable anyway and both are rendered further silly within the context of the whole shebang ordinarily taking decades, but if we are to exmphasise that fact we can't reasonably do it for Rey and not Luke because the only way you can differentiate between them is to split hairs.
Unless it's because she's a girl.
Which it is.
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Then there's the whole exchange in Jedi:
Luke: But I need your help. I've come back to complete the training.
Yoda: No more training, do you require. Already know you that which you need.
Luke: Then I am a Jedi.
Yoda: [coughs trying to speak] Not yet. One thing remains: Vader. You must...confront...Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi, will you be.
Three days on Dagobah, losing a hand, followed by a gap year, only to go and face down a couple of Sith Lords? Doesn't seem like a lot of training.
Won't deny that Rey's training is less than even the three days (or however long) Luke has. Just saying there doesn't seem to be a lot needed to become a Jedi. Or at the very least it is wildly inconsistent.
Three days?!? Is that what's canon now? Last time I checked, there was quite a bit of uncertainty about whether it was days, weeks, or even longer.
Try to make any more match up with the concurrent events on Bespin and come back to me if you can make it work.
I certainly can't.
As a timeliner I tend to agree.
Forget the events on Bespin, the major question has always been how long it took for the Falcon to get from the Space Whale's asteroid to Bespin. Han says it's pretty far from the point where they detach from the Avenger, and it's without hyperdrive.
The falcon has lost its hyper drive, theoretically limiting it to slower than light speed meaning they could have taken months, years or even decades getting to Bespin. Luke had time therefore to train with Yoda, get a weird variant on Stockholm syndrome, get married with R2 as his best man and go through a messy divorce after he caught Yoda messing round with that thing in the swamp, go off on his own, come round and come back willing to forgive Yoda in order to move on and carry on his training before they even made it to Lando.
Ah, ok I forgot about the hyperdrive, but it really doesn't make all that much difference. The Falcon is already in system and can travel at a significant fraction of the speed of light even without the hyperdrive. Allowing for that and the journey being by necessity short enough to allow them not to starve on whatever rations they had aboard at most this give Luke a few days more.
We're still splitting hairs between him and Rey even taking that into account.
We're still splitting hairs between him and Rey even taking that into account.
Hang on.... no, wait ... not yet!
When they detached from the Avenger, they had gone only from Hoth to the Anoat system, whatever the heck that means. They weren't in the Bespin system yet. It's said on screen.
Proceed!
So according to the Wookiepedia entry on the Falcon, according to the TFA cross sections book (I don’t know if it’s canon so don’t shoot me), the ship has a backup hyperdrive:
So there ya go. If we’re going to take the backup drive into consideration, they probably were on the Falcon a few weeks heading to Bespin. But Luke probably had a little time for Hoth to Dagobah and from Dagobah to Bespin so that too must be taken into consideration. I mean, he probably had to go to the bathroom at some point. And who knows if that flightsuit has a bag or anything.
In fairness, that would explain why Han to switched to the backup unit and jumped anyway the first two times when the main hyperdrive failed while the ship was under fire. As to why Vader and Piett only discussed deactivating one hyperdrive and why Lando didn't even seem to know about the backup, maybe it was hidden really well and was installed after Lando lost the ship to Han?
In fairness, that would explain why Han to switched to the backup unit and jumped anyway the first two times when the main hyperdrive failed while the ship was under fire. As to why Vader and Piett only discussed deactivating one hyperdrive and why Lando didn't even seem to know about the backup, maybe it was hidden really well and was installed after Lando lost the ship to Han?
Or, as its from the TFA cross sections book, the hyperdrive was added after Endor.
A fair point though. Didn't think about all of that.
Hang on.... no, wait ... not yet!
When they detached from the Avenger, they had gone only from Hoth to the Anoat system, whatever the heck that means. They weren't in the Bespin system yet. It's said on screen.
Proceed!
Bespin is a planet in the Anoat system....
Therefore their journey was intra system, which makes sense if you think about it, if they'd had to go on an interstellar journey at sublight they'd have starved after a few months and Luke would have died of old age due to the relativistic effects.
Given we've seen SW ships can cross stellar systems in a matter of hours at sublight and the Falcon is a particularly fast ship we end up with much the same situation. Even allowing for the Falcon's damage we've seen she's still capable of performing at something approaching normal standards. If I'm generous here we might say she's going to take a few days due to limping, but even that isn't really shown on screen although it would fit with Han's "think we can make it" statement.
The upshot is even with the hyperdrive situation Luke only gets a few extra days and that is before taking into account the fact that he is making two journeys (Hoth to Degobah, then Bespin). So realistically we need only add a few hours for the hyperdrive, a couple of days at a push. Luke still only gets a few days training and we're back to splitting hairs between him and Rey....
Sorry, but you clicked on the Legends tab.
If you switch over to the Canon tab, it says this:
"Bespin was an immense gas giant located in the vicinity of the Anoat system, a desolate sector of the galaxy."
It's listed as being in the Anoat sector, which also includes Hoth.
Frustrating, I know.
