Is Disney "Star Wars" universe imploding?
- Thread starter starsuperion
- Start date
@Campe98... "the simple fact is that Luke states he is a pilot, Anakin states he can pod race, and Rey says she is a pilot. Then all three follow it up with unbelievable demonstration of skill. That is a part of Star Wars".
Rey said she had never left the planet. She was exactly depicted like someone who had never ever driven a car and then fudging it. Except because it was super Rey she went from that to being skilled in five minutes.
Rey said she had never left the planet. She was exactly depicted like someone who had never ever driven a car and then fudging it. Except because it was super Rey she went from that to being skilled in five minutes.
We see her on a variation of the land speeder.
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All I know is the gurls are icky and have cooties and aren't as good as boy heroes!
#suppressthebreasts
"Mary Sue" is like any other literary tool, it either works or doesn't in a story. If Rey is a "Mary Sue", she is one that works extremely well. Part of the credit goes to the writers, part of the credit goes to the quality of Daisy Ridley's work.
I don't give a damn if a character is classified as a "Mary Sue". Is the movie entertaining is the only metric that really matters to me.
I like to think I can separate what I want to see with what is. Like I can and did watch Ripley in Aliens and walk away not thinking anything other than she has got 'it'. She had character and I don't need to analyse or roll my eyes.I think all chosen-ones face the accusation of being Mary Sues because it's inherently contrived.
If you want to talk about skillz, though, think about how this was handled in The Last Starfighter. Alex Rogan wasn't so much as chosen as he was awarded chosen-one status because of his high score on the game. He woodshed on it until he beat it. Meritocracy.
Or what about Willy Wonka? You see the other kids try to sort of game the system for their golden tickets. Charlie just got lucky. Yes, it's providence, but that and his ultimate gift of the factory is an award for goodness of heart.
Compare that to, for instance, Kirk's fast-track to command in Trek 2009. Cheats on his tests. Displays arrogance and chauvanism. And yet is told that he's destined for greatness anyway and the plot sort of hands command to him on a silver platter. Mary Sue.
And it's no coincidence that The Force Awakens, another JJ vehicle, suffers from this entitlement effect.
Rey isn't as much of an a-hole as Kirk, but she does not woodshed. She is given mad-skillz(tm) out of the ether.
It's always hard to root for a character who gets handed things on a silver platter rather than having to work for it and suffer various setbacks.
There are examples of female heroes who woodshed. Mulan, for instance, or Beatrix Kiddo. They're simply more compelling than Rey.
This is what life is really like. You have to invest your 10,000 hours ala Malcolm Gladwell. Anything less than this is a junkfood fantasy.
It's not something I wanted to do. To walk away from The Force Awakens and say to hubby "Why did Rey bother finding Luke. she's better than him already!". I never got that feeling from watching Luke after the first outing. TFA was still a good movie but Rey was overdone.
We don't need one. She says she can fly.
Land speederThanks.
It has no wheels, so it flies.
.I have a few cookbooks and watch the Food Channel. Geeze everyone can cook but I think I'll call myself a Chef and open a restaurant. Should be a doddle.
And that's like piloting a spacecraft?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T-16_skyhopper
Low atmospheric training glider with air compression cannons that could at a stretch squash rats.
Sigh. This is exhausting.
I’ve explained my perspective several times in this thread. I’m not doing so again.
It comes back down to whataboutisms again. I don't think anyone has said Luke didn't go from amateur to ace or that he didn't need to then let all that go and use the Force in the end. However he had several references to piloting and as a big a stretch as it was the controls on his T-16 were said to be similar. His father was a pilot (unknown and in many ways irrelevant), he had a model of a T-16. He had some experience, something to give the tiniest bit of background. It was better writing.
Rey had what? The ole 'everybody does it' thing?? Her scavenger credentials?? Her set-up to master the Falcon controls is not there. She owned that piece of her Mary Sue-ism.
Upgrade from Rey's landspeeder though
I'm asking because I don't recall Luke piloting anything other than a landspeeder while on Tatooine. He talks about being a pilot and others say he is a pilot. One referring to him a a "bush pilot". The T-16 reference seems to be about shooting small targets, not flying an X-Wing. Unless I missed a reference.
StarSuperion claimed to have a 200+ IQ, which would place him among the top five smartest people in the world.
Well sure, if you don't pay attention to the film and need everything spelled out for you in explicit detail, and if you ignore the post I made where I listed the many examples of circumstantial evidence of her flying skill, which was most of what people were perfectly willing to accept from male characters like Anakin and Luke before, but is suddenly off limits now for some mysterious reason that's totally not sexism.
And if you ignore her speeder piloting evidence, which is exactly as much direct visual evidence as we got of Luke's or Anakin's or young Han's piloting skills before they hopped behind the controls of a spaceship too.
Or if you ignore her explicitly saying she was a trained pilot as she ran into the spaceport and listed off the repair status and performance details of the ships parked there (and demonstrating her obvious familiarity with spacecraft), including the Falcon, which she then flew.
So yeah, just one reference.
Which is pretty much all we got with everyone else too, but they're dudes, so they get the skillz upgrade by default and without second guessing.Luke never left Tatooine before flying off with Obi-Wan and Han. Anakin never left Tatooine before flying off with Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan and Padme. Han never left Corellia before flying off to join the Empire. It's sort of a recurring theme of kids being stuck on these dead end planets until they get the call to adventure. You know, Joseph Campbell's "The Hero's Journey" and all that.
Rey is not depicted as "someone who had never driven a car and then fudging it", and I'm not even sure where you're getting that from. She drove a high performance speeder bike that looked like a Fudgecicle on steroids, though, so I guess she did kind of "fudge it" that way.
Obviously not, because you ignore anything that doesnt fit your preconceived notion of Rey as Mary Sue (which is not even the correct use of the term, as has been explained to you numerous times) and when that doesn't work, you just fill in the blanks with things you imagined to support your argument.
No she's not better than Luke. She has the raw power and potential, but she doesnt have control, or technique. She needs practice and refinement, or else she could easily become dangerous and be tempted to the darkside. Which is precisely what Luke said to her.
You never got the feeling that Luke was super powerful? The guy who dunked on the Death Star with the Force when everyone around him died?
Hell, even the lightsaber piñata scene on the Falcon demonstrated his power. Younglings trained like that for quite some time with Yoda in a special class (unfortunately taking time away from their "How to Not Get Slaughtered by Rogue Jedi 101" class. Too soon?), with slower single shot remote blaster fire, while Luke just gets a pep talk from Coach Obi-Wan about "reaching out with his feelings" and totally triple blocks rapid fire from the remote on only his second try after being told how.
Because he was raised and indoctrinated from childhood to be a Stormtrooper, and fight as a ground soldier. They're like child soldiers. They don't have normal lives.
If he had been the type who trained as a speeder bike scout or a TIE pilot, then that would be another story, but he wasnt. They're highly specialized in their primary duty assignments, and don't have a choice where they're assigned. Even Han wanted to be an Imperial pilot, but got stuck serving in the regular Army as a grunt.
I have a few cookbooks and watch the Food Channel. Geeze everyone can cook but I think I'll call myself a Chef and open a restaurant. Should be a doddle.
Her being able to fly is proof that she knows how to otherwise she wouldn’t be able to.
Then again Anakin flew the Naboo starfighter without any experience in flying at all.
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