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Is Deep Space Nine racist?

All Captains broke the rules. And why didn't it have to be done?
But we're not talking about diverting the Enterprise to Vulcan against orders to save Spock's life and miss some ceremonial. We're talking fraud, bribery, accessory to murder both before and after the fact. Not some obscure regulations, but the core of honorable behavior that's drilled into Starfleet in particular and future humans in general.

This is a great episode because it's about asking questions, not giving answers.
 
But we're not talking about diverting the Enterprise to Vulcan against orders to save Spock's life and miss some ceremonial. We're talking fraud, bribery, accessory to murder both before and after the fact. Not some obscure regulations, but the core of honorable behavior that's drilled into Starfleet in particular and future humans in general.

This is a great episode because it's about asking questions, not giving answers.
and there was nothing wrong with what Sisko did. It was a time of desperation, to save the Federation.
 
I agree. It's a lowering of the moral standard. We feel uncomfortable with it at first, but when we see the results, we end up justifying it, so the moral bar is lowered even more. And again, it helps that the people murdered by the good guys weren't likable, in typical tv trope fashion. I think had the character of Vreenak and the forger been portrayed in a more sympathetic light, the episode and Sisko would have been viewed a lot less favorably by fans. But it was necessary by the writers to do that, in order for us to eventually rationalize Sisko's decision. If we don't like someone their lives are less valuable than those we do like. It helps to reinforce the us vs. them mentality, and using other groups different from our own, as pawns or collateral damage.
so is the world so black and white? is it always good that everybody wins?
 
I should correct that and say that there is SOME small degree of Sisko questioning himself and not thrilled at sacrificing his integrity and beliefs, but in the end, not really. Remember, he'd do it all over again, and that does not strike me as regret. Regret is thinking, "maybe I should have done that differently."

Why should he feel regret, when the war is going in the Federations favor now? Vreenak was a bad dude anyway. Who'd shed tears for that guy (except for his for his family and friends). And Sisko is pretty much certain that the Dominion would go after Romulus after they demolished the Federation and Klingons, so war between the Romulans and the Dominion is inevitable.
Who says he was bad? what did he do? Follow Romulan policy? Be curt to Sisko (which I doubt Sisko cared that much...)
 
Who says he was bad? what did he do? Follow Romulan policy? Be curt to Sisko (which I doubt Sisko cared that much...)
I agree... the only thing Vreenak did wrong was express his patriotic and heartfelt opposition to the interests of the Federation and their allies. (And be a little too trusting of Federation honor.)
 
And it's important to point out that it wasn't Sisko who had Vreenak killed. That's all on Garak.

As for Vreenak in general: He may not have actually done anything wrong, but he was a fool if he actually believed the non-aggression pact with the Dominion would ever benefit his people. The evidence on that data rod may have been technically fake, but eventually it would have come true. The Dominion would have turned against the Romulans. It was just a matter of time, everybody knows it. The simple fact is, the Dominion does not cultivate alliances - they want to be the only ones in control.

So does it really matter whether or not the data was faked?
 
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It really depends. The Dominion might have one heckuva time trying to digest the Federation and the Klingons. The Romulans might calculate they can be there so as help divide up the spoils in the power vacuum left by Federation and Klingon collapse so it would be prudent to bide their time. The Romulans have the same motivation the Breen does, if the Federation-Klingon defeat is projected to be imminent by Romulan strategists, it might be better to throw in their lot with the Dominion. So I can see this being a real and big debate among the Romulan leadership.
 
I agree... the only thing Vreenak did wrong was express his patriotic and heartfelt opposition to the interests of the Federation and their allies. (And be a little too trusting of Federation honor.)

So being characteristically Romulan makes him a bad guy (as you said he was......)?
 
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So being characteristically Romulan makes him a bad guy (as you said he was......)?

Hm? I don't think Vreenak was a bad guy and I didn't say he was. I think he was mistaken thinking that Romulus would be able to coexist with the Dominion in the Alpha Quadrant in the long term... but that's because as an audience member I had more information than Vreenak did. I got to see how the Dominion treated its subject peoples, and what Weyoun and the Founder were like in private, and Vreenak didn't.
 
I was just idly musing earlier that DS9 is the only Trek series not to have a single white American in the main cast. Obviously some of the actors were, but in terms of characters, there's not one. In fact the only Americans at all are the Siskos.

It helps that it's also the series with the fewest humans of course. I'm not sure if there's any wider point to be made, but this thread seemed as good a place as any.
 
DS9 is very much racist in that it paints humans as the "good guys" even while it at the same time shows them committing acts of unconscionable evil that the show does not represent as evil.

Example #1: Murdering all of the Founders with a genocide disease is represented as fine and good, because humans are the ones committing the genocide.

Example #2: Sisko's rape of Mirror Dax is represented as fine and good, because Sisko is a human and "the good guy."
 
DS9 is very much racist in that it paints humans as the "good guys" even while it at the same time shows them committing acts of unconscionable evil that the show does not represent as evil.

Example #1: Murdering all of the Founders with a genocide disease is represented as fine and good, because humans are the ones committing the genocide.

Example #2: Sisko's rape of Mirror Dax is represented as fine and good, because Sisko is a human and "the good guy."

When did #2 happen again?
 
Presumably referring to 'Through the Looking Glass', but I don't recall that as rape. It's been a while, but doesn't Mirror Jadzia give him a kiss then a slap on the face? She appeared to be the initiator. It seemed consensual, but perhaps I missed something.
 
There was no rape in TLG, deception, but not rape.
DS9 Humans were shown as flawed as anyone else including Sisko, Kassidy (depending on your point of view), Eddington, Leyton, Vash.
 
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