Is Deep Space Nine racist?

[WB2]

The word racism in this case needs to be defined. Sadly the word racism has lost any serious meaning in todays world where the word is used for basically anything, from the definition of racism, ie one race is less then others, to a black guy without a ticket screaming racism when the security guards throw him out.

In my world, no the show isn't racist at all.

 

[Leviathan]

Show is made by humans. Show features humans. Humans are racist. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Only insofar as most examples of the genre have the same problems. That an alien race tends to be mostly homogeneous and a representation of one aspect of humanity. But DS9 also criticizes the human perspective more often than other scifi. Quark fights back against Sisko's racist attitude in Gem'Hadar, Garak makes fun of Bashir's human-centric interpretation of Cardassian literature. Blood Oath does not moralize the Klingon need for revenge and does not morally censure Quark in at least half the episodes that focus on him.

 

[urbandefault]

I've seen a few threads with a similar title lately. "Is XX Racist?" "Is YY Racist?""

The answer is no.

If people are running around looking for something to label as "-ist" the problem is not with the perceived "-ism, " it's with that person. The obsession with "-isms" -- in my view -- makes these people "Ism-ists." There is far too much "Ism-ism" and frankly it's time we did something about it.

I'm calling for a universal ban on "Ism-ism" and I hope you'll join me in my cause. Donations will be accepted at the Anti-Ism-ism website: www.ism-ism_sucks.com.

Thank you for your support.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I've seen a few threads with a similar title lately. "Is XX Racist?" "Is YY Racist?""

The answer is no.

If people are running around looking for something to label as "-ist" the problem is not with the perceived "-ism, " it's with that person. The obsession with "-isms" -- in my view -- makes these people "Ism-ists." There is far too much "Ism-ism" and frankly it's time we did something about it.

I'm calling for a universal ban on "Ism-ism" and I hope you'll join me in my cause. Donations will be accepted at the Anti-Ism-ism website: www.ism-ism_sucks.com.

Thank you for your support.

While I agree in principle that people are too quick to attach popular shame labels to things, I've seen such arguments used quite often recently to flippantly disregard legitimate complaints.

 

[Tosk]

"-Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, 'I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me.' Good point there. After all, he was the walrus."

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Can fictional aliens meant by writers to be taken more as allegory than literal for story purposes be racist?

 

[Tosk]

Can fictional aliens meant by writers to be taken more as allegory than literal for story purposes be racist?

What if the allegory is meant to be racist?

 

[Mage]

Star Trek has a long history of showing alien races as singular. They all fit a certain stereotype, except for when the story needs them not to be. Romulans can't be trusted, except this one, and we've learned a lesson. Cardassians are all brutal murderers, except for this one, and we've learned a lesson. It's a trope, sometimes used quite well (Duet), but often it's just a very well known story that is told quite well, but in the next episode, all Cardassians are up to no good again.

So yes, in a way Star Trek can be seen as racist. Usually it's for story purposes, but mostly it's because it's damned difficult to have so many layered cultures in a tv show. You need to spend a lot time doing worldbuilding, and often you don't have that time. Bajorans were more developed, and over time, the same could be said for Cardassians, to a degree. But more often than not, most species were shown as singular, and all individuals seemed to behave according to the same pattern, mostly because it's easy writing and you can focus more on your main characters and the episode's plot.

 

[publiusr]

I must say I laughed at Garak when I heard "Spoonheads!"

That one's on Westmore.

 

[locutus101]

As Kirk put it: "everybody's human."

Spock found the idea insulting.

 

[RandyS]

I stopped reading those quotes after the second one. they come off as somebody going out of their way to look for racism, which frankly, is really getting out of hand. People try too hard to be "offended" so much anymore that it's become a joke and tiresome.

 

[jaime]

Spock found the idea insulting.

Spock didn't get it. And is half human so has issues all of his own on that one. Either that or he was worried the fourth wall was getting broken.

 

[locutus101]

Spock didn't get it. And is half human so has issues all of his own on that one. Either that or he was worried the fourth wall was getting broken.

Spock wouldn't know about the fourth wall, unless he no longer was Spock. This reminds me of a series of the early seventies, UFO i think it was called. At some point the hero thought that he was the actor playing his own role on a stage but it turned out that he was deceived by alien forces. Come to think of it, that looks similar to Sisko in Image In The Sand. Now I know what they cribbed that idea from? An old Sci fi show from the seventies!

 

[Paradise City]

Yes. This is Klan Trek. Deep Reich Nine.

 

[locutus101]

Yes. This is Klan Trek. Deep Reich Nine.

I beg your pardon!

 

[jaime]

Spock wouldn't know about the fourth wall, unless he no longer was Spock. This reminds me of a series of the early seventies, UFO i think it was called. At some point the hero thought that he was the actor playing his own role on a stage but it turned out that he was deceived by alien forces. Come to think of it, that looks similar to Sisko in Image In The Sand. Now I know what they cribbed that idea from? An old Sci fi show from the seventies!

Frame of Mind over on TNG has the literal acting side thrown in. And Riker phasers the proverbial out of the fourth wall.

 

[locutus101]

Frame of Mind over on TNG has the literal acting side thrown in. And Riker phasers the proverbial out of the fourth wall.

But it's not really the fourth wall. The fourth wall would have been broken if Riker would have said things that only Jonathan Frakes would know. For instance in Boston Legal Dennis Crane the character played by Shatner once says "I used to be the captain of my own starship". THAT's breaking the fourth wall.

 

[BJ Wagner]

No, this show is not any more racist than any other Trek show. However, this was the only show to have seven seasons to concentrate on and develop the Bajorans and Cardassians. Yes, the Cardassians were the primary enemy race, but those were mostly the military. We were often shown 'good' politicians and civilians. As for the Bajorans, we were also shown many 'bad' ones. Heck, Kai Winn was the most evil thing on any Trek show--a fitting tribute to how good an actor Louis Fletcher is. She must be one of the nicest people in the world to be able to act so mean.

 

[Cyke101]

I'm not sure if I buy the argument totally, but I very, very much appreciate that Aron Eisenberg brought up specifically anti-racism as an actual thing within Trek. Anti-racism needs to be expressly identified because racism doesn't just disappear gradually; anti-racism is action, and that action is what defeats racism.

Of course, if Aron Eisenberg didn't say it and the facebook commentators said anti-racism, that's good and all, as it's the spirit of what Eisenberg said. But I'd be tickled if a Trek actor actually said anti-racism to a crowd of fans.