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Is Anyone Else Worried?

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My wife and I have been talking a lot about the recent cultural trend of feminism in our media and how we think it isn't healthy and only promotes further sexism, especially against men. See the recent season of Dr. Who, there's tons of examples of misadry. It makes me so sad! Also, we've noticed that the message seems to be that in order for woman to take more prominent roles they must either be Mary sues(where they're too good at everything) or they must be stoic or masculine(kinda like rogue one)

I think you are happy to hear then from me that like usual on Star Trek the male characters far outnumber the female characters (unfortunately in my opinion) and the lead character, while female, will start a war and gets demoted for it. Doesn't sound like a Mary Sue to me.

There might be other Mary Sues around though, just like Gary Stus. This is a TV show and Star Trek after all. That means most actors look better than average and they will generally play very competent Starfleet officers. Idiots normally don't get to serve on a big starship.
 
There are many subsets of Feminism. So I don't think it's fair to paint feminism with a broad brush. Certainly one of those subsets is the militant anti-male groups.

As far as the media is concerned I don't think it's really an issue of Feminism. I think its that media producers want diversity becasue its trendy. So you ens up with self serving diversity rather than diversity that serves the story. There should be nothing wrong with an all white cast or all black cast, or all homosexual cast, provided that's what the story needs. But making a character gay, because you need "the gay guy," or you need "the strong woman" is just dumb, and often just devolves into perpetuating more stereotypes.

It's just like gender swapping characters. We didn't need a female Dr. Who. There should be nothing wrong with having Dr. Who be constantly be a male. But because it's trendy, he's now a she.

I say, bring on the diversity, but not for diversity's sake, becasue that just results in stereotypes. Do it becasue of all the different stories you can tell with diverse people.

Lastly, I was we could see more strong dad's in the media. Too often dad's are portrayed as dead-beat, idiots, or dead. Why can't we just have a good honest, upstanding, hero dads? I think in the effort to make stronger female characters an easy way to do it was just to make the woman a single mother. I don't think you need to sacrifice a strong dad to make the mother strong. They can both be strong together.

On one hand, I agree. If they have a gay character, that's fine with me. However, I'm not sure why his character description needs to include "...and is a homosexual", just like Captain Kirk or Picard's character description didn't need to include "...and he is a heterosexual".

I'm pretty sure we could tell Kirk and Picard were heterosexual by the onscreen story information that was presented to us during the course of the show, just like I'm sure we would be able to figure out that Stamets and Dr. Culber are gay when we see them as a couple onscreen during the normal course of storytelling of the show.

Exactly. You don't see "the black guy" written about Geordi LaForge.
 
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Too often dad's are portrayed as dead-beat, idiots, or dead. Why can't we just have a good honest, upstanding, hero dads? I think in the effort to make stronger female characters an easy way to do it was just to make the woman a single mother. I don't think you need to sacrifice a the dad to make the mother strong. They can both be strong together.
Agree - thank you.
 
Yes, all straight white men wave Nazi flags. Your venn diagram of males in society is fucked up.
No one said that all do. But usually people who cry about how all straight white men are labelled as racist or sexist or homophobic are those things.They say racist/sexist/homophobic/otherwise bigoted shit are are labelled as bigots. Because they are. In past they were completely shielded by their privilege, no one dared to criticise them. And now that this is beginning to crack a bit and people dare to call them bigots for being bigots they think they're being oppressed. Pathetic really.
 
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They want diversity because their audiences are diverse and they are diverse. This isn't that fucking hard, nor some conspiracy to deflate the ego of white males everywhere. It is just how the world really fucking is.
Yeah, it turns out that there are people on this planet who aren't straight white males and if you produce content for them, they'll support it and it will make money. It sounds crazy, but they seem to be the majority of the population so it's financially sound to appeal to them.
 
No one said that all do. But usually people who cry about how all straight white men are labelled as racist or sexist or homophobic are those things.They say racist/sexist/homophobic/otherwise bigoted shit are are labelled as bigots. Because they are. I'n past they were completely shielded by their privilege, no one dared to criticise them. And now that this is beginning to crack a bit and people dare to call them bigots for being bigots they think they're oppressed. Pathetic really.
My grandma had a saying, "the bit dog always hollers".
 
As a man, all I'll say is that men should spend less time talking at people about what we think of feminism and more time listening to women talk about feminism and their experiences as women in a male-dominated society. And we should try to consume more media that lets women take the lead. If you're afraid of women in primary roles or a show expressing a point of view about women's issues or equality, maybe you should examine why you're uncomfortable rather than dismiss the show because of that discomfort.

Just a thought.
 
You're kidding, I assume.

The world kisses our fucking asses. Anyone who seriously whines about the travails of being straight, white and male is...misinformed.

Too many 'straight, white and males' are complaining about sharing the 'ass kissing'. I suggest while their ass is culturally and politically kissed they can culturally and politically suck some d.... or eat some 'small feline'. This way everyone shares the political orgasm of life! The ultimate 69!

(I do not suggest that the OP is one of 'those' males. I believe the OP intentions are well meant but mistaken. IMO the way to enforced racial ignorance (naivete?) is paved with good intentions).
 
No one said that all do. But usually people who cry about how all straight white men are labelled as racist or sexist or homophobic are those things.They say racist/sexist/homophobic/otherwise bigoted shit are are labelled as bigots. Because they are. I'n past they were completely shielded by their privilege, no one dared to criticise them. And now that this is beginning to crack a bit and people dare to call them bigots for being bigots they think they're oppressed. Pathetic really.
Possum made the generalization about straight white males (cis I believe is redundant) which I responded to. Possum posted a followup that clarified not all males which was very even handed and appreciated.
 
They want diversity because their audiences are diverse and they are diverse. This isn't that fucking hard, nor some conspiracy to deflate the ego of white males everywhere. It is just how the world really fucking is.
The media is slowly waking up to the fact that the definition of homo sapien is NOT 'Straight white male from the borders of North America'....
 
It's just like gender swapping characters. We didn't need a female Dr. Who. There should be nothing wrong with having Dr. Who be constantly be a male. But because it's trendy, he's now a she.

I say, bring on the diversity, but not for diversity's sake, becasue that just results in stereotypes. Do it becasue of all the different stories you can tell with diverse people.

Oh please! You have already prejudged the lady Doctor as pandering without seeing a single episode. You don't really care about 'different stories', if you would, you'd at least wait to see what they do with the character before whining.

Not that I really think they need to tell the Doctor Who stories any differently now that she's a woman, and I really hope they don't. The character is thousands of years old alien, I really don't see that to them personally this is any more significant change than a change of hair colour or height.
 
My wife and I have been talking a lot about the recent cultural trend of feminism in our media and how we think it isn't healthy and only promotes further sexism, especially against men. See the recent season of Dr. Who, there's tons of examples of misadry. It makes me so sad! Also, we've noticed that the message seems to be that in order for woman to take more prominent roles they must either be Mary sues(where they're too good at everything) or they must be stoic or masculine(kinda like rogue one)

In Rogue One, they told a specific story about a team getting the plans to the Death Star. There were arcs about Jyn's relationships with her dad, with Saw Gerrera, and with Cassian Andor, but the mission necessitated focus from all the characters. The relationships gave the actors a subtext to play, but ultimately, it was a story about people who knew how to do a job and do it pretty well. In that way, it was a lot like Star Trek. I don't really see much that's particularly masculine or feminine about that, or about stoicism. But Vulcans are associated with stoicism, no matter their gender. Since Michael Burnham was raised by Sarek and Amanda, and aspires to a command career track, and since Phillipa Georgiou is a Starfleet captain, stoicism is absolutely necessary to their characters to demonstrate their professionalism. That said, Burnham certainly sounds like she'll be played and written as someone flawed, who must go on a journey of self-discovery.

As much as I sincerely want discovery to be great, I'm super worried about it and I don't want them to overly politicize the show and make it out right militant. It's not the Star Trek way.

I guess what I'm trying to discuss is, what are the chances that Discovery will follow this media trend and have a forced opinion on the matter instead of an intellectual look at it? What are the chances that they'll make our new hero two dimensional? I want to see a strong female character that can be feminine and strong. I want to see her struggle and grow.
I just feel it's an important discussion for Star Trek to have.

All shows, including all the various Star Trek shows, have points of view. It's impossible to avoid. Fiction isn't a fact-checking website, there simply to relay facts in a cold manner. It's a vehicle for stories that take a look at things from the point of view of the writers. Merely spotlighting that isn't forcing an opinion on others. It's just not denying one's own views on the matter.

The whole point of Star Trek, according to Roddenberry, was to use allegory to provide commentary on social issues from his point of view. His opinions often overruled the writers in ways that infuriated them. Sometimes he was right. Sometimes he was wrong. But one could easily interpret him as forcing his opinion on both his staff and the viewers, especially when it came to things like religion, sex, the perfectibility of humanity, and having a ship that represented all of humanity. He tried to make his Enterprise as diverse as he could, and even promised a gay character a few times for TNG. I like to think he would have supported the casting on DSC, whether he would have liked the show or not.

I'm not out to hurt feelings, I'm here to discuss an art I am deeply passionate about.

I hope so. Given the past few pages of posts, I'd like to hear your thoughts on what others have said.
 
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