Is Anyone Else Worried?

[White Owl]

Hey everyone, I'm new here and I'm excited to talk Star Trek with some folks.

My wife and I have been talking a lot about the recent cultural trend of feminism in our media and how we think it isn't healthy and only promotes further sexism, especially against men. See the recent season of Dr. Who, there's tons of examples of misadry. It makes me so sad! Also, we've noticed that the message seems to be that in order for woman to take more prominent roles they must either be Mary sues(where they're too good at everything) or they must be stoic or masculine(kinda like rogue one)

As much as I sincerely want discovery to be great, I'm super worried about it and I don't want them to overly politicize the show and make it out right militant. It's not the Star Trek way. Star Trek has always been beautiful and challenging, it's why I've always loved it. As a man, I still relate to Janeway(and Picard for other reasons) the most out of the captains, due to her heart and loving approach to others.

I guess what I'm trying to discuss is, what are the chances that Discovery will follow this media trend and have a forced opinion on the matter instead of an intellectual look at it? What are the chances that they'll make our new hero two dimensional? I want to see a strong female character that can be feminine and strong. I want to see her struggle and grow.
I just feel it's an important discussion for Star Trek to have.

*For the record, my wife and I are egalitarianists. Also, I've never written in forums and I really don't want to deal with trolls nor bullys. I'm not out to hurt feelings, I'm here to discuss an art I am deeply passionate about.

 

[O_Kav]

the recent cultural trend of feminism in our media and how we think it isn't healthy and only promotes further sexism, especially against men

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I'm afraid I would have to disagree with your opinion that feminism promotes sexism against men. There are those who take feminism to an counter-productive level and forget that feminism is about equality between genders and not about making women better than men, but the premise of your opinion is a fundamental viewpoint that I do not share so I'm not sure if there would be a way for me or any one else to counter or change that viewpoint. I believe that women in society at large are not treated equal to men, therefore an uptick in the representation in the media is a good thing. I do not believe that all women who are given power in the media are 'Mary Sues' who are 'good at everything'. I feel that many people who use that term very easily are those who have a low opinion of women but do not realize it, perhaps are just threatened by women without realizing it, possibly because of their upbringing or religious background, who are indoctrinated into a system of sexism who see it as not.

In short, no I am not worried.

 

[Mudd]

My wife and I have been talking a lot about the recent cultural trend of feminism in our media and how we think it isn't healthy and only promotes further sexism, especially against men.

It's always useful to have a conversational partner who's absent from the conversation to cosign one's opinions.

Worried? Not a jot.

 

[CorporalClegg]

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Also, we've noticed that the message seems to be that in order for woman to take more prominent roles they must either be Mary sues(where they're too good at everything) or they must be stoic or masculine(kinda like rogue one).

Well, Captain Kirk was pretty much a Gary Stu and nobody seemed to complain about him being too good at everything.

As for Rogue One, I don't think the character of Jyn was necessarily stoic or masculine; she had some vulnerabilities and issues, and had no problem allowing men to come to her aid, just as she had the ability to come to the aid of men....

...But rather, Felicity Jones (who played Jyn) has the unfortunate condition known as "Resting Bitch Face", a condition that only made the character seem to be as you described her, but the characters actions belied that look.

And no...I'm not worried. I haven't really given any thought one way or the other to "worrying about it", nor do I think it's necessary for me to do so.

 

[johnjm22]

I do agree that some modern feminist views are misguided. I also believe that there's a place in world for the advocacy of issues that relate specifically to women.

You can expect the social aspect of the show to be on par with most of what's coming out of the film/TV industry these days.

A certain attitude seems to resonate from the Discovery camp: "Hey look everybody we have strong minority female characters! And LGBT characters too! We're progressive!" There seems to be something strangely unprogressive about having to tell everyone that you're progressive.

 

[Amalak]

Worried?
Nope.
Not even a little bit.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

A certain attitude seems to resonate from the Discovery camp: "Hey look everybody we have strong minority female characters! And LGBT characters too! We're progressive!" There seems to be something strangely unprogressive about having to tell everyone that you're progressive.

On one hand, I agree. If they have a gay character, that's fine with me. However, I'm not sure why his character description needs to include "...and is a homosexual", just like Captain Kirk or Picard's character description didn't need to include "...and he is a heterosexual".

I'm pretty sure we could tell Kirk and Picard were heterosexual by the onscreen story information that was presented to us during the course of the show, just like I'm sure we would be able to figure out that Stamets and Dr. Culber are gay when we see them as a couple onscreen during the normal course of storytelling of the show.

But on the other hand, of course I understand that they want to get press coverage provided by touting, as you said, their "progressiveness". It is a business after all, and publicity is good for business.

So, "meh". Let them flaunt their progressiveness.

EDIT: To be clear, I think the progressiveness is great. However, it would be nice if we lived in a world where the specific progressive aspects of this show did not need to be advertised as a noteworthy thing.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I'm worried about the baggage retrieval system they've got at Heathrow.

 

[Mudd]

There seems to be something strangely unprogressive about having to tell everyone that you're progressive.

A lot of people online who don't like the diversity of the cast and characters have spent a lot of time looking askance at the show and preaching at one another that it's a Bad Thing. This is far more of a nuisance than anything associated with the show..

 

[Spider]

I'm worried about the baggage retrieval system they've got at Heathrow.

I'm worried about the rain in Houston this weekend.

 

[Mudd]

I'm worried that in the pilot Burnham will beat up her cousin Kal-El in a one-on-one fight and the outrage will break the Internet.

 

[pst]

i mean i wouldn't be upset if i thought this show was feminist or progressive, but inclusion and representation don't equal feminism or progressiveness. or even some kind militant politicization. i don't see an agenda being pushed, i see life being more accurately represented by the makeup of this cast.

so nope, not worried. at least not about that. if anything, i'm worried it's just gonna be a bad show or not to my taste. but then "worried" would be kind of an exaggeration.

 

[gblews]

I don't have any worries that the DSC female leads will not be fully realized multidimensional characters.

I like that DSC has made a concerted effort at diversity. And maybe they're so proud of it they can't help but crow about it a bit, I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Pure Antiproton]

I'm worried that CBS:AA will crash the night of the premiere and I'll miss the action. Seriously.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Here. Chilax on some syrupy licks.

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[Zonker]

I'm a little bit worried that that making Burnham related to Spock (even by adoption) reeks of small world syndrome and the type of retconning where you technically don't violate cannon but still feels wrong. I'm not worried at all about feminism in Star Trek though.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

I do not think the OP understands what feminism is. I think we have an MRA folks.

 

[cultcross]

My wife and I have been talking a lot about the recent cultural trend of feminism in our media and how we think it isn't healthy and only promotes further sexism, especially against men

Yeah, no. No it doesn't. The presence of a capable woman on screen does not diminish the men around her except through the fact that they no longer get to be the best of everything and the automatic leader because penis. Much the same is true in reality.