Iron Fist (Marvel/Netflix)

[theenglish]

I just finished the last two Luke Cage episodes this past week and I can easily say it was my favorite series so far. I liked how it was treated as a television series and not as a movie split into thirteen parts. There were no easy resolutions--can't wait to see where it goes.

For Iron Fist, I am now watching episode four. I completely disagree with the critics that complained about Danny explaining Kung Fu to Colleen. That was the point of the scene. She is too Americanized and out of touch with the roots of her discipline.

I do have a major problem with Colleen's cage fights. Unless she is revealed to have secret powers, one punch from the heavy strong arm guys, in real life, would shatter her jaw and leave her disfigured. I know it is a comic book trope that the woman can stand up to the big strong man, but in order to make it work on screen she should never take a direct hit from one of the guys she is fighting.

Considering all of the women who have been effed up physically because they were beaten by strong men, that's something this series should take into account.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Learn Kenjutso -- The Wing Way!

http://thewingway.com/

The linked advertisement is gold:
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[Turtletrekker]

The linked advertisement is gold:
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[Venardhi]

For Iron Fist, I am now watching episode four. I completely disagree with the critics that complained about Danny explaining Kung Fu to Colleen. That was the point of the scene. She is too Americanized and out of touch with the roots of her discipline.

From his narrow and self-important perspective. It certainly doesn't endear us to the character to see him immediately get all judgy about anything that isn't up to the standards of a magical inter-dimensional order of monks.

I do have a major problem with Colleen's cage fights. Unless she is revealed to have secret powers, one punch from the heavy strong arm guys, in real life, would shatter her jaw and leave her disfigured. I know it is a comic book trope that the woman can stand up to the big strong man, but in order to make it work on screen she should never take a direct hit from one of the guys she is fighting.

Considering all of the women who have been effed up physically because they were beaten by strong men, that's something this series should take into account.

Skinny gymnast looking dudes get the shit beat out of them on the reg too. Should Danny not have taken a hit the whole show? It is a conceit of action cinema that people are immensely more durable than any human being would be in that situation.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Iron Fist
Episode 3, "Rolling Thunder Cannon Punch"
Episode 4, "Eight Diagram Dragon Palm"

Nice to see things happening, and that Danny got his shit back...though Harold obviously has an agenda.

Harold Meachum came back to life after three days--That's a little on the nose, isn't it?

David Wenham could have made a good Danny when he was a little younger.

I think my main problem with Ward is that he reminds me of one of the Trump boys. Finn Jones may have been onto something there.

I like it fine so far. Better than the damn CW shows.

 

[Astraboy]

Finished watching last night. Extremely disappointing to say the least.

The show reminds me of a mix between 'The Phantom Menace' and 'SHIELD'... Bad writing, direction, and acting, and filled with emo stupidity. A lot of eye rolls throughout. Fight sequences were boring for the most part and poorly choreographed. The Hand was reduced to a little kid squad after being built up like crazy in Daredevil. This is the group Stick is so worried about? The splintered group theory doesn't hold water imo. Terrible writing there and does not jive at all. Danny is an emo bitch and I can't root for the brat at all. I felt bad for Rosario Dawson with all the garbage writing she was given. The person who played Colleen was frickin terrible... as was Davos, Sis Meachum, and emo wannabe Hand leader. The pacing, editing, & direction made this show boring beyond belief. Each episode could have been about 30 minutes with a competent production team, but... it was emo'd.

On the positive side, Ward was an excellent character. The drunken boxing sequence was far and away the best part of the show. I did an eye roll when you first see the boxer cause you know what's coming, but it was done extremely well. Pops Meachum was also fun. Madam Gao was badass as usual.

I hope 'Defenders' is a return to form for the Netflix shows and I now have no hope for 'Inhumans' since its the same production team.

Yeah, I was rather disappointed too. Had read about the critics' general response and wanted to see for myself, and I've to agree that it's a middling, somewhat mediocre addition to the Marvel Netflix universe. Finn as Danny made him come across as a bit of a whiner and there was little chemistry between him and Jessica Henwick. The plot was uneven and some of the settings and premises even laughable.

I've thoroughly enjoyed all the Marvel Netflix productions up until this one and hope too that The Defenders will be a return to form.

 

[theenglish]

I'm still at a loss to understand why this show is underrated compared to the other series. I have just finished episode seven and I really like the way it is connecting the dots with the first two seasons of Daredevil. Madame Gao is an incredibly interesting villain and I thought her involvement with Rand Enterprises to be well executed. When she walked in to Danny's office and then Danny found her doing business on the 13th floor I was completely shocked.

Just like in Daredevil, she continues to surprise as a worthy adversary.

I'm hoping that Jessica Jones and Luke Cage have ties to this story as well in order to truly bring them in to the Defenders story.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm still at a loss to understand why this show is underrated compared to the other series. I have just finished episode seven and I really like the way it is connecting the dots with the first two seasons of Daredevil. Madame Gao is an incredibly interesting villain and I thought her involvement with Rand Enterprises to be well executed. When she walked in to Danny's office and then Danny found her doing business on the 13th floor I was completely shocked.

Just like in Daredevil, she continues to surprise as a worthy adversary.

I'm hoping that Jessica Jones and Luke Cage have ties to this story as well in order to truly bring them in to the Defenders story.

I enjoyed it. I think the fact the tone is different than the other three shows is why some people didn't warm to it.

 

[theenglish]

I enjoyed it. I think the fact the tone is different than the other three shows is why some people didn't warm to it.

Possibly, but JJ and LC had distinctly different "tones" than Daredevil. Luke Cage moreso. And Luke Cage had the weakest overall story arc---but I liked that. I liked that it was more episodic and about Luke's character development rather than fighting a single bad guy. I also really liked that season 2 of Daredevil was two distinct storylines rather than just dragging out one. Does anybody really want to see the same thing over and over again?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Possibly, but JJ and LC had distinctly different "tones" than Daredevil. Luke Cage moreso. And Luke Cage had the weakest overall story arc---but I liked that. I liked that it was more episodic and about Luke's character development rather than fighting a single bad guy. I also really liked that season 2 of Daredevil was two distinct storylines rather than just dragging out one. Does anybody really want to see the same thing over and over again?

They were a little darker than IF, at least to me. Though, IF isn't exactly rainbows and unicorns

 

[kirk55555]

Could it be the godawful fight scenes and terrible lead? I've thought about watching Iron Fist since its the only Marvel Netflix show I haven't seen, and I did have a big change of heart about DD Season 2 after actually watching all of it. But, you just can't fix one of the core concepts of the show (martial arts) being completely screwed up.

I've seen enough clips (including the infamous 56 cuts in 35 seconds clip), and I really don't know how Marvel didn't just refuse to pay them for that low quality of work. Plus, its apparently more "Meachum: The Series" then it is Iron Fist. I can't speak about that, but I've seen the fight scene clips. Its pathetic, early 2000s shows with 1/4th the budget could probably have done better. I've also seen enough of Jones to see he's just terrible.

I'm admittedly very critical, but even the average Marvel netflix superfan seems to hate the show, which has been fascinating to see. Luckily Io9 have a convenient article that tells all the stuff relevant to The Defenders so people don't have to worry about missing anything by skipping Iron Fist. I honestly had high hopes for it when it was announced, but they really seemed to have screwed it up in every single way.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Could it be the godawful fight scenes and terrible lead?

Since I didn't encounter either in Iron Fist, I'm gonna say no.

 

[kirk55555]

Since I didn't encounter either in Iron Fist, I'm gonna say no.

Well, every clip i've seen and about 90% of the reviewers, both paid and not, seem to have encountered them, with every single fight scene.

Plus, there is the fact that the show is embarrassed to be about a comic character (downplaying the mystical elements and depowering the Fist), but jessica Jones hated the comics almost as badly so its not an Iron Fist specific problem.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, every clip i've seen and about 90% of the reviewers, both paid and not, seem to have encountered them, with every single fight scene.

Plus, there is the fact that the show is embarrassed to be about a comic character (downplaying the mystical elements and depowering the Fist), but jessica Jones hated the comics almost as badly so its not an Iron Fist specific problem.

Everyone is different.

Having watched the show, I didn't see any embarrassment or down playing of the mystical elements. Because of the reviews and comments I was surprised at how much they used the Fist. I think they played the mystical side just right.

The "depowering" of the FIst is connected to Danny's journey and growth.

 

[kirk55555]

Fair enough. Like I said, I haven't seen the show. Just some action clips that were almost nauseating in how much they sucked (the infamous 56 cuts in 36 seconds clip specifically was so disjointed it almost physically effected me, and I have literally never felt the slightest bit of motion sickness in my life), some bad acting clips with Jones and story info that is really uninteresting.

Maybe with better writing he could make a decent half of a Heroes for Hire series (assuming they get better fight coordinators and give IF a mask so a decent stunt double can do the fight scenes). I've wanted that for awhile, and the dynamic could be a better show then either of their solo efforts (although I liked Luke Cage's show fairly well).

 

[Nerys Myk]

the infamous 56 cuts in 36 seconds clip

I've no idea what that means.

 

[kirk55555]

I've no idea what that means.

There is a clip of from Iron Fist which is about 35 seconds of him fighting a guard (in a supply room, I think). Without being edited by outside forces, it has 56 jump cuts in the 35 second fight, and that's how its shown in the episode it comes from. its choppy, disjointed, and almost made me ill just looking at even without ever having motion sickness before in my life (it also looks terrible and is very hard to follow).

Here's the clip

https://www.reddit.com/r/television..._35_second_fight_scene_from_iron_fist_has_56/

It seems to have been done to hide Jones complete lack of ability in the fight scenes. Its been passed around the internet a lot, and it doesn't seem to be a weird one time thing with the show from what I've read (although it might be worse then normal).

 

[Nerys Myk]

There is a clip of from Iron Fist which is about 35 seconds of him fighting a guard (in a supply room, I think). Without being edited by outside forces, it has 56 jump cuts in the 35 second fight, and that's how its shown in the episode it comes from. its choppy, disjointed, and almost made me ill just looking at even without ever having motion sickness before in my life (it also looks terrible and is very hard to follow).

Here's the clip

https://www.reddit.com/r/television..._35_second_fight_scene_from_iron_fist_has_56/

It seems to have been done to hide Jones complete lack of ability in the fight scenes. Its been passed around the internet a lot, and it doesn't seem to be a weird one time thing with the show from what I've read (although it might be worse then normal).

Sorry, not really seeing a problem. But I'm no expert in Martial Arts or film editing. I did read some where the short time between casting Finn and the start of production didn't allow him a lot of time to do in training in the style being used.

 

[tenmei]

Yeah - I'm not seeing why the cuts in the fight scene were bad. It just put the idea over it was rapid - if it was a continuous cut, people would just compare it to DD as they did elsewhere.

 

[Venardhi]

IF isn't unique in the MCU TV oeuvre for its bad editing, inconsistent writing, questionable plotting, unsympathetic characters, etc. but it is notable for not recognizing those flaws in the other series and effectively doubling down on them with a lead who can't convincingly pull off the action and a seemingly obtuse and willful tone-deafness regarding both modern and 40 year old cultural concerns. The few attempts to subvert expectations were under-developed or straight up ignored by the next episode and the writing behind both plot and character seemed to lack a unifying voice behind them.

The bad action editing is really just the icing on top. Something that could be forgiven in better circumstances but impossible to ignore when the production has little else to offer the audience.