Ira Graves - The Schizoid Man

[USS Excelsior]

There are a few things about the transfer into Data's android body that does beg the question.

I mean he transfers his memories and consciousness so to speak but that has to operate within Data's body.

So since Data's positronic brain could not feel any emotions, Ira Graves shouldn't have been able to feel anything once in his body, and plus he should have had proper control over the android body, complete with all of Data's abilities.

And he should have also had the ability to remember every second of his life once he was in Data's body. Such as when he had to ask again whether there would be a funeral service, Picard had to repeat "I said we would Data", implying he was still limited to human brain capacity.

 

[Timo]

So since Data's positronic brain could not feel any emotions, Ira Graves shouldn't have been able to feel anything once in his body, and plus he should have had proper control over the android body, complete with all of Data's abilities.

I'd argue the exact opposite. Emotions would be sheer software, essentially just a collection of memories, and or memories about how those memories were dealt with earlier in Graves' human life. Data would lack the memories that would coalesce the data rattling inside his brain into emotions. Graves would remember how to emote, so he would arrange that very same data into emotions easily enough.

Control of Data's body would also be a function of memory: Graves would not have the memory of spending a lifetime in that body. He wouldn't have the memory of performing perfect data recalls, either, so he wouldn't have easy access to that ability of Data's. Lacking in experience, he wouldn't remember how to remember.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[K-Star]

As for asking Picard again, I think that was more Graves not trusting Picard's word and reminding him by repeating the question (as in, "You ARE going to do that, right?"). I do that to my parents sometimes, too.

 

[USS Excelsior]

About the emotions, it is true that Data required an emotion chip to feel emotions which is an add on hardware, and Lore already had that built within him.

I was thinking that to feel emotions would have to depend on a physical component whether it be biological or technological and if it wasn't there, one can remember all the memories they want but not have an emotional reaction to it anymore.

I was thinking it wasn't transferring Ira Graves actual brain into Data, but transferring his consciousness into Data where he would be subject to all of Data's programming and positronic mental capabilities, including the pre-programmed parameters of his physical specifications to operate that body.

There was a reference in Insurrection as to how Data's legs is 84 point something centimetres and his programming accomodates that for him to walk effectively, where he questioned as to why a kid would not trip over themselves, since they're growing all the time.

 

[Timo]

... to feel emotions would have to depend on a physical component whether it be biological or technological

That's the part I tend to disagree with. While human emotions are accompanied by all sorts of hormonal surges and whatnot, they are for a large part learned behavior; Graves should have been capable of some level of lusting even after losing his glands. He would remember how to respond when another male looks at a woman he thinks is his, even if it felt a little bit funny not to actually have his "blood boiling" any more.

I wouldn't separate "programming and mental capabilities" from "consciousness", either. If Data's programming remained active, then the consciousness inside his head would be Data. It seems that an analogous bit of programming took over, though: programming that had previously been the consciousness of Ira Graves within his biological brain.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[zephramc]

The bigger question is how did Ira know how to interface with Data's OS? How did Ira's conscienceness know how to move an arm or leg or form words?

I suppose he probably had access to Data's specs and could have been practicing via computer simulations or something for months prior to the Enterprise Away Team beaming down.

 

[Timo]

I'd suspect that the learning process would be reasonably rapid. If Graves could substitute his "consciousness" for Data's 1:1, he could usurp the same interfacing routines that have allowed Data to operate his body; the automation, the "reflexes" would be there already, and Graves would just substitute some of the higher order commands with his own.

The episode seems to suggest, though, that Graves came up with the idea of downloading himself into Data only after having had that lengthy discussion with Data. Apparently he had no idea the Enterprise would be coming before the away team actually arrived.

Storing a consciousness in a computer doesn't seem to be that big a deal for various advanced aliens (say, "Return to Tomorrow"). The ability of a computer to store a consciousness doesn't seem to hinge on careful matching of storage formats or anything. The big breakthrough that Graves made seems to have been the actual method of transferring the human thought patterns, memory traces and whatnot from a brain to a computer - any computer.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS Excelsior]

The one thing that did grab his attention was Data's off switch button.

He told Data of his plan and seemed to be on track with that plan until he was told off the off button.