Insurrection; GUILTY!

[votd]

Insurrection is an alien of the week story.

ON THE BIG SCREEN

First Contact was an awful movie and it still amazes me people still praise it. I'd rate Insurrection ahead of it.

The problem with TNG movies is none of them felt like actual movies. There was no grand story that TOS had.

TMP: Refit ship and the crew is getting older. Kirk is struggling with his new role in Starfleet.

TWOK: Same common principal but now the entire crew has been regulated to being a bunch of babysitters for trainees. They are past their prime and no longer on the front lines. They face an old foe from their past. Chekov also gets to be First Officer on another ship.

TSFS: A direct continuation of TWOK story. There is no indication the crew is going to remain together. They are forced to steal their ship to try and save one of their own. Kirk loses his son and his ship to save his best friend.

TVH: A direct continuation of the past two stories. The crew has to come home to face their punishment and instead manage to save the entire Federation.

TFF: No direct continuaty with the other stories other than Kirk being a Captain again and the ship being "new" but constantly broken. By far the weakest story.

TUC: The final mission of the greatest crew of Starfleet. Deals with the crews age and wraps up Kirk's feud with the Klingons, killing his son. Also gives a promotion to Sulu and continues the Excelsior subplot established in 3. The two ships, once foes, are now allies. The Excelsior subplot is nicely done throughout III, IV and VI.

TNG had no on going arc. They tried to do a Picard is old arc in Generations but that went no where. There was no concept of the crew actaully moving on with their careers until Nemesis. TOS had Chekov has the FO on the Reliant and Sulu as the captain of the Excelsior. Both were HUGE parts of the plots.

TNG had Worf just happen to be in the area. FC's Worf's introduction made zero sense because they were too cheap to pay for DS9 actors to join the story.

The Death of the Enterprise-D is not even that powerful when you compare it to the death of the original. Kirk's line of "My God Bones what have I done" and McCoy replying "You did what you always did. Turned death into a fighting chance to live". The Enterprise D had Riker making a joke about the chair and I remember thinking when I saw Generations in the theatre they were going to beam the chair up with them! The death fo the Enterprise D was too happy.

I agree with 99% of what you're saying; but I think the point with the D was that it was just a ship, it held no reverence as it's the people who crew it that make the difference. It seems the only one who cared about the ship was Worf.

 

[cybersoldier]

Insurrection could've been better, I agree. I felt like something was missing and...the boob joke... not good.

Same here, I felt the ship to ship battle scenes should have been longer, I was hoping for a director's cut when the special editions were coming out. Perhaps the TNG films will get an extended or director's cut when going to blu-ray with a TNG remastered starting up. If Insurrection goes blu-ray hopefully there is some improvement with SFX and redo that scene when the enterprise is hit after dropping their warpcore.

 

[LutherSloan]

Insurrection should never have been a film, period. It felt like someone had taken one of the middle of the road two-part episodes from TNG and made it into a full-length feature.

 

[cybersoldier]

Insurrection should never have been a film, period. It felt like someone had taken one of the middle of the road two-part episodes from TNG and made it into a full-length feature.

If not this version the other version which was supposed to be darker

 

[LutherSloan]

Insurrection should never have been a film, period. It felt like someone had taken one of the middle of the road two-part episodes from TNG and made it into a full-length feature.

If not this version the other version which was supposed to be darker

The actual version of Insurrection was pretty bad towards the Federation. It certainly wasn't Starfleet's finest hour, planning to sacrifice a whole race in order to use the planet to help in the war effort against the Dominion.

Subsequent books have stated that the Ba'ku plan was a Section 31 operation, which makes sense.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

That would've made sense about Section 31. Pity they weren't in the movie.

 

[cybersoldier]

That would've made sense about Section 31. Pity they weren't in the movie.

I never believed some of the reasoning behind Insurrection not being true a dominion war film. The excuse the audience wouldn't know what happened or how the war started,so do what they sometimes do in film. Give a brief explain at the beginning slow enough that the audience had enough time to read it i.e The Emissary- DS9, or have someone in the film briefly said i.e Patrick Stewart. There is your filler for any backstory they might have need before editing anything out. Insurrection wasn't should a bad idea if they would have used an alien the audience knew i.e Romulan then it would have left more conflict between the e-e crew and romulans. No backstory needed for the romulans, and could have spread to Nemesis which would have gave TNG it first movie arc. As much as I like Insurrection and Nemesis, both of these films could have been so much more. Isurrection being a product of the late Mr. Pillar with changes from Berman to just needing more time to work on the script;and Nemesis great ideas with so-so excusion. If JJ was on Nemesis it would have been the bang it needed to be imo. Perhaps instead of B4 it would have been Lore? Who knows, every trek film have their ups and downs insurrection's problem, came behind a very successful First Contact, insurrrection should have been Star trek X, Nemesis XI or IX, and star Trek XII should have been the finally TNG film.

 

[LutherSloan]

As far as I'm concerned, they set the bar VERY high after First Contact, and promptly snapped it in half with Insurrection.

 

[I am not Spock]

They should have had more reference to the Dominion War in Insurrection, i agree. Have an opening crawl at the beginning. That would fill the casual audience in.

It would explain why the Federation was so desperate that they need the Baku planet.

Come to think of it, Dougherty ought to have been a Section 31 operative. That would have made sense.

 

[I am not Spock]

Insurrection should never have been a film, period. It felt like someone had taken one of the middle of the road two-part episodes from TNG and made it into a full-length feature.

If not this version the other version which was supposed to be darker

The actual version of Insurrection was pretty bad towards the Federation. It certainly wasn't Starfleet's finest hour, planning to sacrifice a whole race in order to use the planet to help in the war effort against the Dominion.

Subsequent books have stated that the Ba'ku plan was a Section 31 operation, which makes sense.

See, i agree. The basic premise of Insurrection was quite good.

They should have just made the connection to Section 31 and the Dominion War more explicit in the movie. That may have helped it.

 

[Joker]

They should have had more reference to the Dominion War in Insurrection, i agree. Have an opening crawl at the beginning. That would fill the casual audience in.

It would explain why the Federation was so desperate that they need the Baku planet.

Come to think of it, Dougherty ought to have been a Section 31 operative. That would have made sense.

Utter fan-wanking bollocks that would not have made one iota of improvement to the quality of the film.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

It might've helped, Elton.

 

[RobertScorpio]

They should have had more reference to the Dominion War in Insurrection, i agree. Have an opening crawl at the beginning. That would fill the casual audience in.

It would explain why the Federation was so desperate that they need the Baku planet.

Come to think of it, Dougherty ought to have been a Section 31 operative. That would have made sense.

Utter fan-wanking bollocks that would not have made one iota of improvement to the quality of the film.

Agreed..however it would have helped a little with fans like me who still, to this day, cant understand how Picard is holding parties on his starship when the Federation is fighting for its very survival...

Rob

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

and the 'boobs getting firmer' line could be explained away as a Section 31 password! Brilliant.

No... wait... still crap.

 

[Too Much Fun]

As I become more familiar with Deep Space Nine (watching it for the first time, currently getting towards the end of season 5), it shocks me to think that Michael Piller wrote Insurrection. This guy was amazing. He wrote some of the best episode of Next Generation (i.e. "The Best of Both Worlds") and was the head writer and executive producer/co-creator of Deep Space Nine. He was the one who turned Next Generation around in the third season towards the greatness it would achieve from that point and went on to be responsible for all of the awesomeness that Deep Space Nine possessed.

So how is it that when he got his big shot at writing a Star Trek movie, he screwed up so badly? All the pieces were in place for Insurrection to be excellent. Frakes coming back after doing a terrific job directing First Contact, and one of the most talented writers in the history of Star Trek getting the script duties. With Nemesis we can blame the bringing of outside talent, but there's no excuse for Insurrection. It's just really baffling. The guy created so many great stories on TV...it's such a shame that he couldn't have used one of them for a movie and let the story of Insurrection just be another bad Next Generation episode.

 

[RobertScorpio]

As I become more familiar with Deep Space Nine (watching it for the first time, currently getting towards the end of season 5), it shocks me to think that Michael Piller wrote Insurrection. This guy was amazing. He wrote some of the best episode of Next Generation (i.e. "The Best of Both Worlds") and was the head writer and executive producer/co-creator of Deep Space Nine. He was the one who turned Next Generation around in the third season towards the greatness it would achieve from that point and went on to be responsible for all of the awesomeness that Deep Space Nine possessed.

So how is it that when he got his big shot at writing a Star Trek movie, he screwed up so badly? All the pieces were in place for Insurrection to be excellent. Frakes coming back after doing a terrific job directing First Contact, and one of the most talented writers in the history of Star Trek getting the script duties. With Nemesis we can blame the bringing of outside talent, but there's no excuse for Insurrection. It's just really baffling. The guy created so many great stories on TV...it's such a shame that he couldn't have used one of them for a movie and let the story of Insurrection just be another bad Next Generation episode.

I have often wondered about that too, especially considering how good he was at writing. I can only guess that Paramount meddled and chopped it all up...would be interesting to know if there are any alternate versions that were not filmed due to budget/fighting with Paramount...

Rob

 

[DWF]

I don't think Michael Piller screwed up, but then the final film wasn't his original idea for the movie.

http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/11/10th-anniversary-review-of-star-trek-insurrection/

Piller’s first treatment, entitled "Star Trek: Stardust," was completed May 9, 1997 which was a much more serious drama based on the themes of the 1902 novella by Joseph Conrad "Heart of Darkness." The early drafts of the script involved Picard going after an old friend named Hugh Duffy who is claiming that the Federation is in collusion with the Romulans (whose leader is a charmer named Joss) to destroy a world in order to gain its precious ’sarium krellide’ ore. In defiance of Commander Norton of Starfleet (who was later changed to Admiral Matthew Dougherty), Picard realizes that Duffy is telling the truth and he places his four pips on a table to become a rebel fighting alongside Duffy. The early drafts includes a fight between Worf and Joss, Riker and crew helping Picard in his mission, political intrigue, and an ending of Picard standing before the Federation Council to answer for his actions. He is told his career is over until we hear Boothby applauding Picard’s comments and soon a chorus of people chant support for Picard and his mission. Based on this early version, the film wouldn’t have resolved whether or not Picard has his command back (we will have to wait for the sequel Piller promised). Many other drafts would be written during the next year, until the narrative was one with which everyone was happy. In fact, Ira Steven Behr contributed comments and notes about the script. With one of the drafts, Piller tells how he was worried because Ira took his glasses off before offering his opinion, and he never takes his glasses off! Pre-production started in early 1998 and after a quick production and post-production the film was released December 11th.

I'd say that Insurrection turned out better than that first draft even Ira Steven Behr was alittle worried about this draft.

 

[Too Much Fun]

With one of the drafts, Piller tells how he was worried because Ira took his glasses off before offering his opinion, and he never takes his glasses off!

I always wonder when I watch the special features from TNG and DS9 DVDs why Ira never takes off his damn sunglasses! I want to yell at him, "take them off, what are you hiding? Wearing sunglasses indoors is lame!". It definitely makes sense that the story's poorness would be largely due to an overabundance of re-writes as Robert suggested. Good to know it wasn't just a case of Piller writing something bad right off the bat.

 

[Jeyl]

I wouldn't have minded the concept of Insurrection if the Baku society wasn't comprised of a bunch of selfish unlikable a**holes. Think about it. We have this opportunity to make living beings in the galaxy have healthier and longer lasting lives. If the Baku are so great that they're worth mounting an Insurrection against your very faction for, why don't they just decide to help out and share this wonderful discovery? Sure, being mortal would suck, but at least you would know that other beings would have longer lives to live out and do things that they probably would never have been able to do. But no, they want to remain where they are and keep all the youth for themselves. Grr! I hate this movie!

 

[Joker]

They should have had more reference to the Dominion War in Insurrection, i agree. Have an opening crawl at the beginning. That would fill the casual audience in.

It would explain why the Federation was so desperate that they need the Baku planet.

Come to think of it, Dougherty ought to have been a Section 31 operative. That would have made sense.

Utter fan-wanking bollocks that would not have made one iota of improvement to the quality of the film.

Agreed..however it would have helped a little with fans like me who still, to this day, cant understand how Picard is holding parties on his starship when the Federation is fighting for its very survival...

Rob

Because it's a separate franchise.