Insurrection; GUILTY!

[ThunderAeroI]

In IX, Picard stops an Admiral who is breaking the Prime Directive... Insurrection... not so much.

The Prime Directive didn't apply. The Baku weren't natives or even truly a pre-warp culture.

...and yet Picard thought he had to go in there, right in the middle of the Dominion war, and screw around with this totally inane plot. At a time of war you have to pick and chose your efforts. For example, during WW2, if Grenada had been invaded by whom ever do you really think FDR would have diverted any of the WW2 effort, let alone the Flagship of the military, to assist..I doubt it....

Rob Scorpio

\
However, the war was over and they was a cease fire. So Picard would have been free to do whatever without risk of damage. In fact he was diverted from a diplomatic mission unrelated to the dominion when he took the detour to the Bakuu.

Picard can do no wrong....

 

[Good]

Actually, the war was still ongoing, but I think it's too simplistic to think that every Starfleet ship would be fighting all the time. Instead, we see Picard doing what he does best: diplomacy. They talk about the need to find new allies against the Dominion at the beginning of the movie.

Ultimately, this is what makes INS a good story to me. It makes us think about what we do when the chips are down. Do we compromise our beliefs for short term gains? I think one reason people don't like INS is that they would kick the Baku off their planet because "we're at war!" Hmm, that sounds familiar. Waterboarding and wiretapping anyone?

Plus, I liked the klingon zit joke. Every time my wife and I see any kind of skin bump we call it a gortch.

 

[ThunderAeroI]

I could have sworn, that Picard metions that the war was over and they were in a cease fire, and the federation diplomatic team was working on the wit of surrender. Picard was off doing one last diplomatic call unrelated to the dominion war.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Actually, the war was still ongoing, but I think it's too simplistic to think that every Starfleet ship would be fighting all the time. Instead, we see Picard doing what he does best: diplomacy. They talk about the need to find new allies against the Dominion at the beginning of the movie.

Ultimately, this is what makes INS a good story to me. It makes us think about what we do when the chips are down. Do we compromise our beliefs for short term gains? I think one reason people don't like INS is that they would kick the Baku off their planet because "we're at war!" Hmm, that sounds familiar. Waterboarding and wiretapping anyone?

Plus, I liked the klingon zit joke. Every time my wife and I see any kind of skin bump we call it a gortch.

I see what your saying...but this isn't 'just a ship'..this is the Flagship of the Federation. And all it does, IMO, is cement the perception that Picard is wanted anywhere around a strategic situation having to do with the survival of Earth...they should have re-written the script to have the Enteprise TRAPPED in the Briar patch and couldn't get out..that at least would have given Picard 'cover' in all this Dominion talk..

Rob

 

[Nebusj]

I could have sworn, that Picard metions that the war was over and they were in a cease fire, and the federation diplomatic team was working on the wit of surrender. Picard was off doing one last diplomatic call unrelated to the dominion war.

There's nothing said explicitly in Insurrection about when things are going on. The closest we get is when Lead Evil Facestretcher Alien says the Federation has been challenged by the Borg within the last 24 months. Assuming that to be First Contact, and assuming that 12 months is a thousand stardates, then, yes, this could be after the end of the Dominion War (and, presumably, before Worf goes off to his ambassadorial position).

 

[GalaxyX]

Ok, so Insurrection is being compared to "Journey's End" and to "TSFS"

Hah hah hah....ok, attempt to be serious here:

Journey's End's main storyline was about Wesley's encounter, and ascension? with the help of the Traveler. The story about the aborigines was the B story. Even so, it had:

- A recognizable group that was in trouble (aborigines) who clearly could not defend themselves.

- A recognizable enemy who was pretty frightening.

On the other hand insurrection had:

- A group of self righteous hippies who gave up their capability to defend themselves to live a "simple life" AND are still smug that they are superior even afterwards.

- A group of enemies that look like clay mouldings, and cannot be taken seriously whatsoever.

Add to that the horrible jokes throughout the movie, and the fact that they spent the whole time running away instead of fighting back, and there was no way that movie could have succeeded.

As for the comparison to TSFS, TSFS although on the surface have similar themes, the stakes in TSFS are much much higher. The small bits of comedy are not forced, and NOT at the expense of the characters, and the movie really does make you feel like Kirk and company are going against a beurocracy. Insurrection only feels like Picard is going up against a dumbass Admiral who couldn't tell the difference between his face cheeks and his ass cheeks. The two movies would be like comparing a Major League against a Bush League.

 

[Good]

You've definitely got some valid gripes GalaxyX. The "crazy admiral" plot devices was very stale and the Son'a were weak as enemies. I think INSs problem is that it was a decent episode instead of a movie. Of course I'm of the opinion that they should done a 8th season of TNG instead of going for the money with movies. Trek is, at it's best, an episodic story with an ensemble cast. That never translates well to the storytelling constraints of film.

 

[GalaxyX]

^^^ Personally I think TNG needed to do a story on a epic scale, something like the episode "Where no one has gone before".

Can you imagine that as a major feature film? The exploration of galaxy M33, perhaps a couple of battles with hostile species there? The traveler powered escape that leads them to......the edge of the universe? where everyone's thoughts become reality? A deep exploration of the minds of the Senior staff? People dying because of it. Picard's desperate attempt to get them back, with a dying traveler on the sickbay table?

But instead they went for the mundane. At least they didn't have to fight "God" yet again

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Insurrection could've been better, I agree. I felt like something was missing and...the boob joke... not good.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Insurrection could've been better, I agree. I felt like something was missing and...the boob joke... not good.

What was missing was the feeling as if it were a movie....it felt like an average episode and went a long way making casual fans, or non-fans, say "Why spend money to buy tickets to a movie that isn't even as good as an episode"

Not sure what the late Michael Piller was thinking, but for all we know the suits scaled back what he was trying to do..

Rob

 

[cardinal biggles]

Patrick Stewart certainly did.

 

[darkshadow0001]

Out of the TOS films 5 is by far the worst, I mean its directed by the Shat so it's not really a surprise.

I disagree. I watch TFF every once in a while and I enjoy the film. I never saw this in the theatre, so maybe after seeing the The Voyage Home and then going to see TFF, maybe some people can say this is a bad film.

I have to say Insurrection is the worst film. I liked the CGI and the effects the film had to offer, I just didn't like the soundtrack and the forced humor that was in some of it, and Worf's presence also didn't make sense. I say The Final Frontier is far better then Insurrection by far.

 

[Meredith]

Why the federation couldn't have setup a Health Spa on the opposite side of the planet that the "Ren Fair" was located is way totally beyond me.

That way everyone would fscking win.

 

[Lashmore]

I dunno, I had really high hopes about a well done big ass insurrection where even the federation splits into two sides.

Overall, not because it didn't spread to the federation in that aspect, just the movie itself...I honestly thought it was one of the more disappointing films I had ever seen

Nemesis, i was kinda forced into the cinema to watch by my Mrs...we both walked out wanting our money back.

 

[GalaxyX]

Thinking about this thread, I popped the DVD in yesterday. Oh man what were they thinking??? There is no way the average person would have been remotely interested in seeing this.

Starts off with what looks like a garden in the center of a big park and a bunch of people minding their own business. So far so good. Then turn to Picard trying to recite a line to impress some new aliens, that when we finally see them look like mini beach balls. I laughed, as I didn't remember this scene. Of course, make Picard look like an ass by wearing that ceremonial belt thing on their heads.

Turn to Data beating people up while cloaked, promising beginning. Then Picard comes to the rescue and the village hippies are like "ah, your android's positronic brain is phucked and we couldn't fix it, what? are you shocked that we know what a positronic brain is? We are more advanced than you, but we believe technology is evil, so we gave it all up to live a peaceful life here........."

And with that they completely lost me. I felt like reaching my hands in to the TV and choking the living bullshit out of these arrogant dicks. The boob jokes, the klingon zit and the joystick were just beating a dead horse to me at that point.

 

[CobraCommander]

I don't understand how ST V is worse than this crap? Sybok blows Ruafo by a long shot. We the viewer also don't understand what is wrong for the Sona? Ruafo kept saying that the Baku "did this" to them. What did they do to them? At least with Sybok and Khan, the viewer knows who they are and what they are living for. Ruafo is simply a caricature.

Also, In ST V McCoy and Spock had to face their deepest fears. All the TNG officers had to face was making fun of the silly android, make fun of the Klignon (didn't he have any Jem'Hadar to kill anyways), and show how superior and reightous they are. Pure Crap.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I don't understand how ST V is worse than this crap? Sybok blows Ruafo by a long shot. We the viewer also don't understand what is wrong for the Sona? Ruafo kept saying that the Baku "did this" to them. What did they do to them? At least with Sybok and Khan, the viewer knows who they are and what they are living for. Ruafo is simply a caricature.

Also, In ST V McCoy and Spock had to face their deepest fears. All the TNG officers had to face was making fun of the silly android, make fun of the Klignon (didn't he have any Jem'Hadar to kill anyways), and show how superior and reightous they are. Pure Crap.

Yes, and since I orignated the OP, let me just say that I am not saying that STAR TREK V is the best Trek movie. I personally like it a lot more than many of the others because I like character moments over Zapguns and warp speed. I'll take a scene like the one in the observatory between Sybok and the Big Three over a zippy-pow battle with a Borg ship any day of the week...

But the plot of Insurrection is just, well, warmed over left-overs from TNG episodes, and NOT remotely as good.

I like V...I like it because its fun to watch and because of ROW ROW ROW your boat, and all that stuff...bad FX? Sure. But I believe they are better than Insurrections CGI cartoony stuff. And, just as you said Cobra, Khan is a far more interesting character than ANY of the Insurrection guest stars (and, dare I say, even more interesting than SOME of the TNG regulars)

Rob

 

[Utopianvista]

Insurrection is an alien of the week story.

ON THE BIG SCREEN

First Contact was an awful movie and it still amazes me people still praise it. I'd rate Insurrection ahead of it.

The problem with TNG movies is none of them felt like actual movies. There was no grand story that TOS had.

TMP: Refit ship and the crew is getting older. Kirk is struggling with his new role in Starfleet.

TWOK: Same common principal but now the entire crew has been regulated to being a bunch of babysitters for trainees. They are past their prime and no longer on the front lines. They face an old foe from their past. Chekov also gets to be First Officer on another ship.

TSFS: A direct continuation of TWOK story. There is no indication the crew is going to remain together. They are forced to steal their ship to try and save one of their own. Kirk loses his son and his ship to save his best friend.

TVH: A direct continuation of the past two stories. The crew has to come home to face their punishment and instead manage to save the entire Federation.

TFF: No direct continuaty with the other stories other than Kirk being a Captain again and the ship being "new" but constantly broken. By far the weakest story.

TUC: The final mission of the greatest crew of Starfleet. Deals with the crews age and wraps up Kirk's feud with the Klingons, killing his son. Also gives a promotion to Sulu and continues the Excelsior subplot established in 3. The two ships, once foes, are now allies. The Excelsior subplot is nicely done throughout III, IV and VI.

TNG had no on going arc. They tried to do a Picard is old arc in Generations but that went no where. There was no concept of the crew actaully moving on with their careers until Nemesis. TOS had Chekov has the FO on the Reliant and Sulu as the captain of the Excelsior. Both were HUGE parts of the plots.

TNG had Worf just happen to be in the area. FC's Worf's introduction made zero sense because they were too cheap to pay for DS9 actors to join the story.

The Death of the Enterprise-D is not even that powerful when you compare it to the death of the original. Kirk's line of "My God Bones what have I done" and McCoy replying "You did what you always did. Turned death into a fighting chance to live". The Enterprise D had Riker making a joke about the chair and I remember thinking when I saw Generations in the theatre they were going to beam the chair up with them! The death fo the Enterprise D was too happy.

 

[GalaxyX]

^^^ Agree with the last 2 posters.

 

[ZERO_of_ZERO]

I liked Insurrection, I thought there were some quite emotional moment in it.