Insurrection; GUILTY!

[RobertScorpio]

In my humble opinion, and for what ever reason, the TNG movies were trending down in terms of quality. And had TNG got two movie movies, to equal TOS's six, they would have been bad movies.

Generation is my favorite TNG movie. But if I were to go by public/fan perception? Then Generations is to TNG what The Motion Picture was to TOS. Both were good starts but it took the second film (First Contact and Khan) for them to nail it.

But after that? Yes, it is true, TNG only got two more movies, and TREK got four more...but I say the reason TNG didn't get movies five and six was because of the drop off in quality....And that can be laid squarely at the feet of Insurrection.

In Search for Spock was not as good as Khan. But the drop off wasn't as bad as the drop off is from FC to Insurrection.

But even still, they are given one more chance and Nemesis comes out and is, well, a big flop. Yes, I know, it opened around the final Lord of the Rings movie, but that isn't why Nemesis did bad...it did bad because it was just a bad film...

So, after Nemesis falls, what would potential TNG movies 5 and 6 have been like? I think, had they been made, Paramount would have cut the budgets and I actually think the decline in quality would have continued. And I am not even sure if both Spiner and Stewart would have come back.

So I think that although Nemesis is as bad as it is, and it is bad, IMO, I think INSURRECTION, coming off of FC's coat-tails, is the movie that was the silverbullet to the TNG franchise...it started the snowball effect.

I watched Insurrection last week, and I still say that the CGI for that movie was awful. Dreadful. The story is so pedestrian I am amazed they even call it a movie. Insurrection reminds me of a pre-season football game. You get stuck paying full price for a product that is hardly professional. Insurrection has the feel to me.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Cky]

I've actually just watched the first 4 films, and all of the TNG movies recently with my friend, along with watching the other 2 TOS movies.

And I've got to say, the best film out of all of them is Star Trek II obviously (mainly because it was brilliantly shot and the director re-shot scenes so many times the Shat was annoyed and didn't overact, thus equalling good acting.

But honestly, there is one moderatly good TNG film which was First Contact. I think Generations had a good concept was but so badly shot. I mean a prime example would be Picard being told he can go anywhere in time from The Nexus, so what he decides to do is go back on that bridge and take Kirk with him. Now the question is why didn't he go back in Ten-Forward when he talked with Soren and stop him then and there? It would stop Geordi being caught and tortured, and the Enterprise-D being destroyed.

Out of the TOS films 5 is by far the worst, I mean its directed by the Shat so it's not really a surprise.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I've actually just watched the first 4 films, and all of the TNG movies recently with my friend, along with watching the other 2 TOS movies.

And I've got to say, the best film out of all of them is Star Trek II obviously (mainly because it was brilliantly shot and the director re-shot scenes so many times the Shat was annoyed and didn't overact, thus equalling good acting.

But honestly, there is one moderatly good TNG film which was First Contact. I think Generations had a good concept was but so badly shot. I mean a prime example would be Picard being told he can go anywhere in time from The Nexus, so what he decides to do is go back on that bridge and take Kirk with him. Now the question is why didn't he go back in Ten-Forward when he talked with Soren and stop him then and there? It would stop Geordi being caught and tortured, and the Enterprise-D being destroyed.

Out of the TOS films 5 is by far the worst, I mean its directed by the Shat so it's not really a surprise.

As bad as FINAL FRONTIER is? Nemesis is not only worse, it doesn't even beat V's box-office take. And that was with 2003 dollars...

Rob

 

[cynical dreamer]

Insurrection is my favorite of the TNG movies and my second favorite Trek film overall. I like it for it's tone and it's spirit.

 

[Candlelight]

Insurrection has developed it's own quiet fan base though, mainly because it's the only film that seemed true to the tv series.

To be fair, anything coming off the back of First Contact, arguably the best TNG film, would've been a disappointment.

 

[Gonk]

I found the script for Insurrection online a month or two prior to its release, and I remember getting to the bathtub scene and deciding, "No, this can't possibly be legit." ...It's a FAAAKE

...so imagine my horror when, in the movie theater, I'm seeing scenes (and lame one-liners) I read in what I'd believed to be a bit of fan fiction.

That being said, however, I re-watched Insurrection a couple months ago and found it to be better than I remembered. It definitely had more "heart" than Nemesis, and felt more TNG-like.

 

[MikeS]

Insurrection is my favorite of the TNG movies and my second favorite Trek film overall. I like it for it's tone and it's spirit.

I'm glad that someone else holds the same opinion as I do. I think Insurrection is a much more mature and cerebral adventure, and one I can watch again and again.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Insurrection is my favorite of the TNG movies and my second favorite Trek film overall. I like it for it's tone and it's spirit.

I'm glad that someone else holds the same opinion as I do. I think Insurrection is a much more mature and cerebral adventure, and one I can watch again and again.

I think you're cerebral gets trumped by Riker flying the ship with a Quickshot 2, Worf stressing about zits, the smooth as an Android's arse quip, the emergency flotation device...

Ah fuck, it was just 2 hours of horseshit in a Trek uniform!

 

[Siwilliams]

Insurrection is my favorite of the TNG movies and my second favorite Trek film overall. I like it for it's tone and it's spirit.

I'm glad that someone else holds the same opinion as I do. I think Insurrection is a much more mature and cerebral adventure, and one I can watch again and again.

I think you're cerebral gets trumped by Riker flying the ship with a Quickshot 2, Worf stressing about zits, the smooth as an Android's arse quip, the emergency flotation device...

There is a thing called a sense of humor, Star Trek Insurrection is a fun movie, and more true to the TNG series

Also, Riker with the joystick? How is that any different than the joystick scene in Star Trek 2??

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

I'm glad that someone else holds the same opinion as I do. I think Insurrection is a much more mature and cerebral adventure, and one I can watch again and again.

I think you're cerebral gets trumped by Riker flying the ship with a Quickshot 2, Worf stressing about zits, the smooth as an Android's arse quip, the emergency flotation device...

There is a thing called a sense of humor, Star Trek Insurrection is a fun movie, and more true to the TNG series

Also, Riker with the joystick? How is that any different than the joystick scene in Star Trek 2??

That wasn't a joystick, it was a manual Photon Torpedo trigger.

Speaking of the TOS movies. In Star Trek III, Kirk assaults Federation personnell, arranges a conspiracy with his officers and together they steal the Enterprise, sabotage the Excelsior, disobey orders (especially regarding the Genesis project), then engage in conflict as free agents with the Klingon Empire, risking a war between the Klingons and the Federation. All to save the soul of a dead friend.

In IX, Picard stops an Admiral who is breaking the Prime Directive... Insurrection... not so much.

 

[Siwilliams]

I think you're cerebral gets trumped by Riker flying the ship with a Quickshot 2, Worf stressing about zits, the smooth as an Android's arse quip, the emergency flotation device...

There is a thing called a sense of humor, Star Trek Insurrection is a fun movie, and more true to the TNG series

Also, Riker with the joystick? How is that any different than the joystick scene in Star Trek 2??

That wasn't a joystick, it was a manual Photon Torpedo trigger.

So, its a stick same thing and cheesy

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

There is a thing called a sense of humor, Star Trek Insurrection is a fun movie, and more true to the TNG series

Also, Riker with the joystick? How is that any different than the joystick scene in Star Trek 2??

That wasn't a joystick, it was a manual Photon Torpedo trigger.

So, its a stick same thing and cheesy

If you can't play Bubble Bobble with it, it ain't a joystick

 

[Candlelight]

Speaking of the TOS movies. In Star Trek III, Kirk assaults Federation personnell, arranges a conspiracy with his officers and together they steal the Enterprise, sabotage the Excelsior, disobey orders (especially regarding the Genesis project), then engage in conflict as free agents with the Klingon Empire, risking a war between the Klingons and the Federation. All to save the soul of a dead friend.

In IX, Picard stops an Admiral who is breaking the Prime Directive... Insurrection... not so much.

You're comparing two completely different time periods with two completely different set of values. TOS could be the 19th century, TNG the 20th.

In TNG, La Forge is Chief Engineer.

In TOS, Uhura wouldn't have been even allowed on the bridge, let alone the ship.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Speaking of the TOS movies. In Star Trek III, Kirk assaults Federation personnell, arranges a conspiracy with his officers and together they steal the Enterprise, sabotage the Excelsior, disobey orders (especially regarding the Genesis project), then engage in conflict as free agents with the Klingon Empire, risking a war between the Klingons and the Federation. All to save the soul of a dead friend.

In IX, Picard stops an Admiral who is breaking the Prime Directive... Insurrection... not so much.

You're comparing two completely different time periods with two completely different set of values. TOS could be the 19th century, TNG the 20th.

In TNG, La Forge is Chief Engineer.

In TOS, Uhura wouldn't have been even allowed on the bridge, let alone the ship.

Huh?

You have like, watched TOS?

 

[Colonel Midnight]

Well, I'll admit that INS was the first Trek film (actually, first film EVER) where I walked out before it ended... shaking my head in disgust.

That bad feeling continues on to today, where I haven't seen NEM because of it, knowing it's basically cut from the same mold.

Still, YMMV, so c'est la vie.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[tranya]

Insurrection is my favorite of the TNG movies and my second favorite Trek film overall. I like it for it's tone and it's spirit.

I'm glad that someone else holds the same opinion as I do. I think Insurrection is a much more mature and cerebral adventure, and one I can watch again and again.

It's certainly more "cerebral," but don't conflate that with making any sense -- why the Ba'ku were portrayed as, basically, some little ren faire in Northern California who need a whole planet to themselves is beyond me. The movie may have matched the ethos of TNG better than any of the other TNG movies, but that doesn't mean it was a good movie.

Plus, Gilbert and Sullivan? Utterly awful.

 

[cynical dreamer]

Insurrection is my favorite of the TNG movies and my second favorite Trek film overall. I like it for it's tone and it's spirit.

I'm glad that someone else holds the same opinion as I do. I think Insurrection is a much more mature and cerebral adventure, and one I can watch again and again.

It's certainly more "cerebral," but don't conflate that with making any sense -- why the Ba'ku were portrayed as, basically, some little ren faire in Northern California who need a whole planet to themselves is beyond me. The movie may have matched the ethos of TNG better than any of the other TNG movies, but that doesn't mean it was a good movie.

Plus, Gilbert and Sullivan? Utterly awful.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Admiral shoot down the idea of sharing the planet saying that the process of harvesting the radiation would leave the planet uninhabitable.

I don't remember a single line from the film denoting that the Ba'ku were hording the entire planet for themselves.

 

[Siwilliams]

That wasn't a joystick, it was a manual Photon Torpedo trigger.

So, its a stick same thing and cheesy

If you can't play Bubble Bobble with it, it ain't a joystick

I said it is still a STICK, still cheesy
as hell

 

[Candlelight]

Speaking of the TOS movies. In Star Trek III, Kirk assaults Federation personnell, arranges a conspiracy with his officers and together they steal the Enterprise, sabotage the Excelsior, disobey orders (especially regarding the Genesis project), then engage in conflict as free agents with the Klingon Empire, risking a war between the Klingons and the Federation. All to save the soul of a dead friend.

In IX, Picard stops an Admiral who is breaking the Prime Directive... Insurrection... not so much.

You're comparing two completely different time periods with two completely different set of values. TOS could be the 19th century, TNG the 20th.

In TNG, La Forge is Chief Engineer.

In TOS, Uhura wouldn't have been even allowed on the bridge, let alone the ship.

Huh?

You have like, watched TOS?

I'm talking about the era, not the actual shows.

 

[MikeS]

Still, YMMV, so c'est la vie.

What is YMMV? There are too many abbreviations on Trek BBS (What is BBS anyway?!) I'd hate to confuse my BOBW's with my CX's or LGM. (Can you guess what those were? )

It's certainly more "cerebral," but don't conflate that with making any sense

Don't confuse conflate with confuse!

why the Ba'ku were portrayed as, basically, some little ren faire in Northern California who need a whole planet to themselves is beyond me.

The TNG episode Journey's End had a similar dilemma. Should we have allowed the Cardies to annex the planet because it was "basically, some little ren faire in Northern California who need a whole planet to themselves"? Trek is littered with stories revolving around whole planets with little more than a solitary settlement. I think for the sake of story-telling we are expected to allow our imagination to fill in the bigger picture, and let our conscience fill in any moral ambiguity.

Plus, Gilbert and Sullivan? Utterly awful.

At the time I'd been suffering DS9's Vic Fontaine so it was nice to hear some decent opera!