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Indistinguishable from Magic??

Even if Geordi isn't committed to being an engineer for the rest of his life, why assume the only alternative is commanding a starship instead of, say, leaving Starfleet to become a novelist like he did in the "All Good Things..." future or a ship designer like in Countdown?
Or a teacher at the Daystrom Institute, or Jupiter Station, or wherever the B4 has been shipped (hell, at this point Geordi probably knows more about Soong-type positronic brain architecture than anyone in the Federation). Hell, I could see Scotty grooming him to eventually take over the SCE. . .

I'll agree that Geordi's way past-due for a character spotlight (and something that at least resembles romantic success), but I kinda like the idea that he's spent 20 years doing the job he loves and still enjoys getting up for "work" every morning. Isn't that what we all aspire to?
 
Speaking of O'Brien, where is he assigned in the Typhon Pact era?

We don't know, but last we knew, he was on Cardassia Prime (at least through 2377 and perhaps into 2378, I forget when "The Never Ending Sacrifice" finishes). I don't know if he's still there, but Keiko seemed committed to making it work, so I'd guess he is.
 
Christopher said:
It's utterly ridiculous to say that someone is a failiure if he doesn't become a starship captain. There are a lot of ways to succeed besides that.

Who's saying that? I'm merely saying that I think commanding a starship is a believable ambition for Geordi LaForge. I wouldn't say the same of many Trek characters.
 
Christopher said:
It's utterly ridiculous to say that someone is a failiure if he doesn't become a starship captain. There are a lot of ways to succeed besides that.

Who's saying that?

DarKush was the poster I was initially responding to on this point. He said he'd rather see Geordi become a captain than remain "stagnant" in engineering, "not growing or changing." Who says you can't stagnate in starship command? Who says you can't grow and change as a chief engineer?
 
Christopher said:
It's utterly ridiculous to say that someone is a failiure if he doesn't become a starship captain. There are a lot of ways to succeed besides that.

Who's saying that?

DarKush was the poster I was initially responding to on this point. He said he'd rather see Geordi become a captain than remain "stagnant" in engineering, "not growing or changing." Who says you can't stagnate in starship command? Who says you can't grow and change as a chief engineer?

In any workplace there are different kinds of workers. Some want to continue to move to different positions whether laterally to gain new experiences or move up to greater management responsibility. There is another group of content workers that like their jobs and see a lot of opportunity to grow and improve the area they work in simply based on their own experience and historical knowledge. We all have different views of career success and career stagnation. These are personal choices.
 
^That's exactly my point. Some fans assume every Starfleet character has to become a captain. I'm saying there are plenty of other valid paths.
 
christopher I was doing some diging on my nook and found you're new book aviable for preorder so I got my copy . BOOM SHAKALAKA .
 
My one fear is that if he leaves the Enterprise he will be forgotten or bumped off by the writers. However, for the sake of his character, I want him to leave, to get his own command. I would rather have him show up from time to time in a TNG book as captain of the Challenger instead of dwelling in engineering, not growing or changing, not experiencing the human adventure, and isn't the human adventure what Trek is all about?

I have never understood this idea that becoming a starship captain is the only worthwhile goal for an officer and that anything less is a failure. That's completely unrealistic. Only a very small percentage of officers can ever become captains (there's only one to a ship, after all), and there's no reason why every single officer would want to. Command is merely one specialty out of many. And captains would be useless without their first officers, science officers, engineers, CMOs, ops managers, helm officers, counselors, etc. There are many personally and professionally fulfilling command tracks in Starfleet other than captaincy.

Indeed, Geordi said as much in Q & A, as I recall. He recognized that being the chief engineer of the most advanced and powerful starship in the fleet was anything but a career dead end, that it was in fact a culmination. He'd already reached the most fulfilling possible level in his chosen career. He already had his own ship, in a far more direct and hands-on way than a captain has a ship. Moving to a captaincy wouldn't be progressing forward, it would just be giving up the role where he's most satisfied.

I never said Geordi was a failure. I said he was stagnant, primarily regarding his character development. Giving him a promotion to captain would up the stakes for him, force the writers to present him with more challenges. Also, he could get to be an instructor, a mentor of sorts. There's a lot of interesting places a Captain LaForge can go that Chief Engineer LaForge has not, can't, or the writers so far have not allowed him to (on the show, movies, or in the novels).

He's pretty much been doing the same thing for 20 plus years, which can be 'realistic' however I wonder how realistic on the same ship. Even on the Enterprise how much focus has he been given to be a miracleworker? Has he ever had to fight for his job, has he ever had to face his own Shelby? He's just going along to get along, more background scenery than anything. I hate to say it, but a token.

To be honest, in Trek being captain is a big deal. The captains are generally the anchors for each show and/or each series. I don't see a Captain LaForge getting his own series, however, it would put him in rare air. Plus with the dearth of talented, veteran officers out there since the events of Destiny I could see him at least being offered an XO spot or perhaps even command, maybe of an SCE vessel.

Why is it that every other TNG character has had an arc, even the similarly marginalized Dr. Crusher, except Geordi? Everyone else has changed, yet Geordi remains "content". Safe, reliable, static. One could argue that there are people like that in real life, but this fiction. And I have to wonder if the writers are content to let Geordi remain content because they don't have any feel or interest for his character. Christopher said Geordi reached the culmination of his career, well its pretty early to have done that for him. So what's going to do for the rest of his life? How can he truly know it's the culmination-which sounds so final and dead end-if we don't at least see him wonder about other possibilities, which we never really have?

Heck, even Kadohata seemed to get more character development and an arc during her brief time in the relaunch novels than Geordi has during nearly his entire time on either the show or in the books. And other Lit. characters like Ch'Thane or Vaughn have definitely been given more character development.

The captain thing is just a mechanism for him to grow as a character. With the larger point presented about being stagnant or growing in any particular position, I agree with. However, the way Geordi has been handled over the years would lead me to believe that the writers haven't done much to give him an inner life which would make him less stagnant no matter what job he holds. It's not being captain or he's nothing at all. If Geordi remains an engineer, which is likely, at least give him new friends, new lovers, new interests, new adventures, and ways he can contribute to Enterprise and Starfleet in general in unique ways. Have him become more of a influence in engineering circles across the Fleet, an authority in something. In short, do more with him.
 
I disagree that Geordi should be doing something else, because for him being the chief engineer of the Federation flagship is what he wants to do. How many of you can say the same thing?

However, with IfM and the Challenger on the horizon, one might say that the writers are taking him in the direction of ascending to the captaincy of the Challenger, at least eventually but that is by no means a given, it could all just be misdirection to give the book a better marketing strategy among ST fans.
 
That the one beef i have with writers, he has been there how long? In a real world miliarty ,para miliarty whatever you have to move up or move out. Yes having reached the mile stone of COE is a major feather, but after awhile real commands begin to see those who cling to one place to long as holding other backs. How many young officers cant earn that feather for themselves becasue the old guards dont want to move? we keep hearing about how drained starfleet man power is, but then we have people like laforge with 20 plus yrs still were they are 20 yrs ago. With his training and exprience he should have been at the very least be in charge of a repair depot somewere SCE ship. I love you writer some of you do great jobs, but alot of you think to much like civilians.
 
That the one beef i have with writers, he has been there how long? In a real world miliarty ,para miliarty whatever you have to move up or move out. Yes having reached the mile stone of COE is a major feather, but after awhile real commands begin to see those who cling to one place to long as holding other backs. How many young officers cant earn that feather for themselves becasue the old guards dont want to move? we keep hearing about how drained starfleet man power is, but then we have people like laforge with 20 plus yrs still were they are 20 yrs ago. With his training and exprience he should have been at the very least be in charge of a repair depot somewere SCE ship. I love you writer some of you do great jobs, but alot of you think to much like civilians.

I agree with you to a degree because you still have races that mature and live at different paces. Even humans live longer, so I kind of think that the military model of today doesn't work with a Vulcan who can live nearly two hundred years. Yet, I do agree that being in the exact same position for two decades shows no real development.
 
That the one beef i have with writers, he has been there how long? In a real world miliarty ,para miliarty whatever you have to move up or move out. Yes having reached the mile stone of COE is a major feather, but after awhile real commands begin to see those who cling to one place to long as holding other backs. How many young officers cant earn that feather for themselves becasue the old guards dont want to move? we keep hearing about how drained starfleet man power is, but then we have people like laforge with 20 plus yrs still were they are 20 yrs ago. With his training and exprience he should have been at the very least be in charge of a repair depot somewere SCE ship. I love you writer some of you do great jobs, but alot of you think to much like civilians.

I agree with you to a degree because you still have races that mature and live at different paces. Even humans live longer, so I kind of think that the military model of today doesn't work with a Vulcan who can live nearly two hundred years. Yet, I do agree that being in the exact same position for two decades shows no real development.
If humans are living twice as long then as they are now, then consider how long the working life of a person might be. To us 20 years in the same position might be a real long time, but it would only be like 10 years in the same position if you think about it, and that's not so long.
 
Time doesn't slow down if you live longer. You just have more time. Also, Trek has shown the exact opposite of what you said. If we see a character in their same position and job its because the writers or whoever didn't develop them. Harry Kim is an example. He stayed an ensign for seven years, yet with in a couple of years back in Federation space he jumped two grades. Yet, we have La Forge, who stayed a CEO for nearly two decades in the same grade. He should at least been promoted and sent to teach at the Academy or head an research dept. I don't take the whole I will deny promotion or re-assignment thing. You can't pick and chose what orders you want. Except in cases of morale issues.
 
Time doesn't slow down if you live longer. You just have more time.
I'm not saying time slows down, you really misunderstood me there. I'm just saying that 20 years to them is like 10 years to us. In the next few years Geordi could decide to teach the next generation of engineers, become a CoE Captain or command a ship of the line, or maybe retire and write engineering manuals. Who cares, as long as he is happy. If I was happy as an assistant manager somewhere, why would I want to be a manager. It's not like a promotion would give him more pay.
 
Time doesn't slow down if you live longer. You just have more time. Also, Trek has shown the exact opposite of what you said. If we see a character in their same position and job its because the writers or whoever didn't develop them. Harry Kim is an example. He stayed an ensign for seven years, yet with in a couple of years back in Federation space he jumped two grades. Yet, we have La Forge, who stayed a CEO for nearly two decades in the same grade. He should at least been promoted and sent to teach at the Academy or head an research dept. I don't take the whole I will deny promotion or re-assignment thing. You can't pick and chose what orders you want. Except in cases of morale issues.

I think there is a lot of truth in this. Look at Paris in comparison to Kim on VOY. Paris went from prisoner to ensign to lieutenant through the run of the series, while Kim stayed at the same rank. I think the rank changes was a reflection of the greater attention Paris received over Kim. It was almost like Kim was so insignificant that they didn't even bother to promote him, despite the fact that he had done more than enough to deserve it.

I think many of us are getting hung up on the rank issue with Geordi, when I think the larger issue is his lack of character development. A promotion might not give Geordi more pay but it would provide other avenues to expand his character.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing Geordi assigned to a starship, but instead of Challenger give him a command in the Corps of Engineers.
 
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