Incursion Part 1: simple solution (spoilers)

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

Why didn't Young simply have the gate room ALREADY in vacuum before the Lucian Alliance came through the gate? As a matter of fact, they ought to have that room at zero pressure any time they don't have to be in there. They don't have an iris (SG-1) or a shield (Atlantis), so at the very least, they should have the gate room in a hard vacuum when it's unoccupied. There was no reason at all to wait until the Lucian Alliance had already established a beach head before sucking their lungs dry. They should have popped through the gate and instantly popped.

True, Telford would have died, but to my mind, that's an acceptable loss compared to multiple crew members being killed in the beach head situation that resulted.

 

[Brent]

Young didn't know if Rush would still be connected through Telford though, he could have killed rush if the stones didn't disconnected, he didn't know.

What he should have done though, is manually disconnect Rush from Telford before they came through, I have no idea why he left that connection running. All they had to do was disconnect it.

Then, as you say, after it was disconnected, then they could space em.

I don't think he did it though cause he wasn't willing to kill Telford.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

When Telford wanted to go back, Young told Telford that he'd already nearly killed him once that day. Clearly, he wouldn't shed too many tears if he'd spaced Rush. Although, O'Neill did suggest to Young that Young wasn't making the tough call to let someone die for the mission, as Carter had just done.

I still stand by my point that they should keep that room in a vacuum at all times. Or else, chain some of those chest busting aliens in front of the gate, on tethers that reach just far enough to gobble people who come through. lol

 

[Kirby]

Young is a bad commander. The orignal plan would have been fine, but the risk of losing more people and the waste of an already limited supply of ammo to defend the ship was stupid. Even more so, the consumables like food, water, medical supplies etc that would be used by taking on new passengers is even more stupid. I agree with Sisko that room should have been in hard vaccum by the time the gate connection was made.
I don't think it should be in hard vaccum all the time, but it should be under guard, and they should have a plan to evacuate the room and suck the air out on a moments notice.

Of course, doing the smart thing would have ended the story right there. I'm sure the producers would have been more than happy to do that, and give us a 30 minute montage of people jogging to bad indie rock music.

 

[PsychoPere]

When Telford wanted to go back, Young told Telford that he'd already nearly killed him once that day. Clearly, he wouldn't shed too many tears if he'd spaced Rush. Although, O'Neill did suggest to Young that Young wasn't making the tough call to let someone die for the mission, as Carter had just done.

He may not have shed any tears over Rush's death, but gaining control over Destiny would be a hell of a lot more difficult without Rush. That said, Young should certainly have disconnected the stones, then open the room to vacuum as suggested. I too wondered why he didn't just plan to have the room like that as a nice little surprise for the Lucians both times I watched the episode. As you and General O'Neill correctly pointed out, however, Young was not willing to consider killing one of his own men, since he didn't anticipate that Rush would be brought through the gate as well. He should have been able to anticipate that, because it only makes senses that the Lucians would bring Rush back to the ship considering he's the closest thing to an expert on Destiny there is.

Young is not fit to command this expedition; that's why Telford was supposed to lead it instead. The Lucian incursion definitely underlines how badly these people need a better leader.

 

[Brent]

It doesn't matter if they brought Telford/Rush back or not, Rush would always be there cause all they had to do was disconnect the stones! Once they detected trouble, that should have been the FIRST thing Young did was have the stones disabled, and get Rush back on their ship. Then, when the LA arrived, whamo, space em.

Someone needs to tell Jack what transpired on the ship so Young can get removed as commander.

 

[bullethead]

Actually, what's worse is that Young had control of the artificial gravity and didn't make use of it in addition to the venting the air plan. By pinning the Alliance personnel to deck as soon as the gate shut off, he would have guaranteed that even if they had some aces up their sleeves (which they did), they wouldn't be able to do anything and force them to negotiate.

 

[Brent]

That's a great idea! Even if he didn't want to kill them, or Telford, they could have increased the gravity in that room to pin them to the floor, to allow them to think of their next move.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

To play devil's advocate here, strictly speaking we only knew they could turn the gravity on and off; we DON'T know if they can play with anything in between. For all we know, there's a simple manual switch marked "0" and "1" somewhere, since the Ancients generally share our preferences in gravity, temperature, and favorite gasses to breathe.

Also, they may not have had the foresight to design whatever creates the gravity on the ship to go beyond a standard gravity setting without modification. Given how much trouble the gang has had to control ANYTHING on the ship so far, dialing gravity up to 11 (G's) may simply not have been possible.

Mark

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

I don't get the reasoning behind his plan to go in shooting once it became obvious that the Alliance had a single hostage. It was almost inevitable that Young would lose people in a major shootout. Even injuries would tax their medical capabilities on board. He should have negotiated for Telford's release from a stronger position. Heck, just drop the gate room's oxygen to a lower level and make everyone black out. It would take less than a minute if he'd had it waiting when they arrived. Even if Telford was shot (killed or not), Young's crew would still be better off than if they'd gone in shooting against an equally (or better) armed contingent of soldiers.

Young has a proven record of making crappy decisions with his emotions, rather than command perogative. That little quote he and Rush continually mention in the intro montage, "For the good of the crew" doesn't ever seem to factor into a lot of his decisions.

 

[bullethead]

To play devil's advocate here, strictly speaking we only knew they could turn the gravity on and off; we DON'T know if they can play with anything in between. For all we know, there's a simple manual switch marked "0" and "1" somewhere, since the Ancients generally share our preferences in gravity, temperature, and favorite gasses to breathe.

Also, they may not have had the foresight to design whatever creates the gravity on the ship to go beyond a standard gravity setting without modification. Given how much trouble the gang has had to control ANYTHING on the ship so far, dialing gravity up to 11 (G's) may simply not have been possible.

Very true, but even turning off the gravity would've massively disadvantaged the Alliance personnel, given that they probably don't have much experience with zero-g maneuvering. Once that was done, simply have Greer and Scott enter the upper level of the gate room with the space suits and open fire upon the Alliance personnel.

 

[Jax]

Young is a bad commander

I am a great defender of SG but the writers were awful in how the Lucian Alliance took over the ship. It was probably one of the worst bits in the franchise history because the choice was simple you suck the air out of the room before they come...SIMPLE AS

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

Of course, doing the smart thing would have ended the story right there.

Which is the mark of sloppy writing or sloppy thinking.

12. One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.
http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

If an obvious, simple, and elegant solution is ignored by the characters, it's either a case of (a) the writers being idiots or (b) the writers thinking, "our viewers are idiots." They should have scrapped the incursion idea or explained why Young refused to do the obvious and space their butts. If nothing else, call Young on the carpet at the Pentagon for refusing to make the tough call.

 

[David cgc]

Well, they did that last one. They slipped in a bit about Carter having to leave behind two of her pilots when the planet exploded, and O'Neill said Young should've been more of a hardass like she was.

 

[Brent]

Yet they still leave Young in command, I'm starting to question Jack's mental state

 

[PsychoPere]

In Jack's defense, before Telford's arrival, who else could have been in command? It couldn't fall to Scott since he's only a Lieutenant; Wray isn't exactly an ideal choice though she may be the only logical choice since she's IOA; and Rush can't even work well with other scientists, let alone actually be a leader. They unfortunately don't really have any "good" options for command; they just have least worst.

 

[Brent]

Yes, when they arrived... but it has been a long time now, and he has proven he is not up to the task, so they need to appoint a new commander. Shoot, they could have someone brain swap with him for most of the day and issue orders. That would actually be a GOOD use of the stones.

 

[bullethead]

In Jack's defense, before Telford's arrival, who else could have been in command? It couldn't fall to Scott since he's only a Lieutenant; Wray isn't exactly an ideal choice though she may be the only logical choice since she's IOA; and Rush can't even work well with other scientists, let alone actually be a leader. They unfortunately don't really have any "good" options for command; they just have least worst.

Don't forget Rush was in the hands of the Alliance on their Icarus planet at the time (even though that could've been solved by removing his stone from the device).

 

[Harvey]

If Young was truly worried about Rush, he probably wouldn't have nearly suffocated him to death (while Telford was in his body) now would he? Taking that into account, there's no reason why his character shouldn't have ordered the gate room ventilated before the Lucian Alliance came through.

 

[Xerxus]

Young didn't know who was gating to Destiny. There was a chance that SGC successfully took over the planet and are sending supplies.

Sucking the air out of the gate room before they arrived might not have worked. The LA could potentially signal back that the next wave gate with their oxygen masks on, or if they realize that boarding is impossible they might just choose to destroy destiny with some kind of bomb.

But the LA had magic door openers, so it isn't clear whether sucking out the air would have worked.