Wow that is a great scene, a shame they had to cut it
"Inalienable human rights"
- Thread starter Laura Cynthia Chambers
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Wow that is a great scene, a shame they had to cut it
My quote is the dialogue from the script -- I suspect that line was a later addition (and, then, one that ended up making the final movie when other parts of the dialogue were cut.)
Worth noting that the exact words in several of the lines are subtly different as well, and presented in a different order.
Only top-of-the-line models can even talk.
I remember that line from the movie. I must admit that I don't really know what it means. Are they forbidden to talk or were they physically altered to not be able to talk?
It's just an a-hole partaking in speciesism. He (I presume, I should add) means that only select Klingons can speak english.
I see. It makes more sense that way.
The full scene is much better than the one we see..what a shame it was cut.
The story goes the script had some sensitive moments for the actors. I believe Nichelle Nichols (Uhura) refused to say 'Guess who is coming to dinner', and they gave the line to Walter Koenig (Chekov). And Brock Peters (Admiral Cartwright) found some lines too close to home as a black actor of his generation.
(STVI is my fav ST movie)
"Nichols was more uncomfortable with some of the dialogue's racial undertones. Her character was originally to speak the line, "Guess who's coming to dinner," as the Klingons arrive on theEnterprise, but refused to say the part and it was given to Koenig's character instead.[12] Nichols also refused to say the line "yes, but would you like your daughter to marry one [a Klingon]", and it was dropped from the film altogether".[8
"Meyer thought that Cartwright's vitriolic speech would be particularly chilling and meaningful coming from the mouth of a recognized minority. The content of the speech was so repugnant to Peters that he was unable to deliver it in one take.["
(STVI is my fav ST movie)
"Nichols was more uncomfortable with some of the dialogue's racial undertones. Her character was originally to speak the line, "Guess who's coming to dinner," as the Klingons arrive on theEnterprise, but refused to say the part and it was given to Koenig's character instead.[12] Nichols also refused to say the line "yes, but would you like your daughter to marry one [a Klingon]", and it was dropped from the film altogether".[8
"Meyer thought that Cartwright's vitriolic speech would be particularly chilling and meaningful coming from the mouth of a recognized minority. The content of the speech was so repugnant to Peters that he was unable to deliver it in one take.["
I think the last part at least worked like a charm. Our heroes are beyond petty racial concerns - but blind to the fact that they have just shunted them to petty specieist concerns.
It's a nice echo of "Errand of Mercy" where Kirk fiercely defends his right to kill, maim, destroy and coerce in the name of peace, prosperity and freedom. And then gets wiser.
Timo Saloniemi
It's a nice echo of "Errand of Mercy" where Kirk fiercely defends his right to kill, maim, destroy and coerce in the name of peace, prosperity and freedom. And then gets wiser.
Timo Saloniemi
It is when humanity meets other races they realise their planet bound history of racism was ridiculous since all humans are the same race. It takes meeting a blue or green person for a white, beige and brown human to realise they are same species/race. Humans are still racist in the Star trek universe, just not with each other. e.g Terra Prime - Paxton's right hand man was a tall, black dude named Joshua. 'First contact' eventually kills white privilege and other caste systems.
(Why insist that we're all of the same race? It sounds like giving race significance where none is due.)
Trek may have been sexist from day one to today and ongoing, but it seldom went the racist route. TOS already had its share of very human heroes, villains, sidekicks and henchmen, but without racial bias (meaning it didn't shirk away from having a black villain, either). ST6 keeps up that tradition very nicely, and it's IMHO rather lamentable that Uhura doesn't get to blurt out any racist lines... It's not as if we wouldn't forgive her in a heartbeat, after all!
Timo Saloniemi
Trek may have been sexist from day one to today and ongoing, but it seldom went the racist route. TOS already had its share of very human heroes, villains, sidekicks and henchmen, but without racial bias (meaning it didn't shirk away from having a black villain, either). ST6 keeps up that tradition very nicely, and it's IMHO rather lamentable that Uhura doesn't get to blurt out any racist lines... It's not as if we wouldn't forgive her in a heartbeat, after all!
Timo Saloniemi
Denying all humans are the same race makes as much sense as denying a white woman and a black woman are the same gendar.
Huh? Surely "race" is a very convenient word for describing the blatant difference in appearance between a black man and a white man.
If we can't use that word, we really have to invent another in its place. Differences in appearance may not "mean" much, but they are vital for discussions about, well, appearances.
Timo Saloniemi
If we can't use that word, we really have to invent another in its place. Differences in appearance may not "mean" much, but they are vital for discussions about, well, appearances.
Timo Saloniemi
Yes in the fictional Star Trek universe Uhura would probably say it. And the audience would forgive her. However in the real world the actress who still lives in the real world, where the concept of racism is still alive and well and living in her backyard did not want to say it. Ms Nichols has paid her dues from way back when some of us were still embryos.
Its a lazy descriptor and its false but for historical reasons I understand why we use the term. But even science has proven it is a false concept. No one says a white poodle and a black poodle are of different breeds. Would you describe the blatant difference between a blonde human and a brunette human with the word 'race'? Consider there are black people of African descent with the same amount of melanin as Europeans. Where is the 'blatant difference' there'?
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Some actors play villains. They get paid for it, and often take pride in doing it well. Some may decide they don't want to portray rapists or mass murderers or the soldiers of a hostile realm, and I guess that's okay as such. But it's not a powerful way to send a message.
Again, huh? Poodles and great Danes are different breeds. We need the word "breed" to discuss that difference.
I guess I could say "phenotype" instead of race, but what would be the advantage? A black man isn't just a white man wearing blackface, he's a complex combination of aesthetically significant characteristics (and naturally comes in many variants, all of them deserving of their own descriptive term much like breeds and their characteristics).
Beyond that, there may be a couple of actually significant characteristics, like a predisposition to sickle cell anemia or lactose intolerance, that deserve to be discussed in terms of race. But that's not the real reason to extensively use the term - the reason is to drive home the fact that there's no harm in it.
Timo Saloniemi
Again, huh? Poodles and great Danes are different breeds. We need the word "breed" to discuss that difference.
I guess I could say "phenotype" instead of race, but what would be the advantage? A black man isn't just a white man wearing blackface, he's a complex combination of aesthetically significant characteristics (and naturally comes in many variants, all of them deserving of their own descriptive term much like breeds and their characteristics).
Beyond that, there may be a couple of actually significant characteristics, like a predisposition to sickle cell anemia or lactose intolerance, that deserve to be discussed in terms of race. But that's not the real reason to extensively use the term - the reason is to drive home the fact that there's no harm in it.
Timo Saloniemi
A black man is a human being with in most cases more melanin in his skin than a white male human. Comparing a poodle to a Dane is not comparing a white poodle to a black poodle. Is a white BMW of the same range different from the same range BMW that is red?
If humans were different 'races' the ability to sexually reproduce with each other would be zero or/and need medical intervention. It does not.
Different breeds of dogs interbreed with ease. Different races of humans do as well. This does not pose any counterargument to the use of these very practical terms.
And claiming a black man is defined by his skin color sounds to me much worse than accepting that he is the member of a group with a distinct phenotype overall...
Timo Saloniemi
And claiming a black man is defined by his skin color sounds to me much worse than accepting that he is the member of a group with a distinct phenotype overall...
Timo Saloniemi
I took it to mean speak at all, insinuating most Klingons just grunt and growl.
Which part of my sentence states a black man is defined by his skin colour? A black human has more melanin in his/her skin that a white human which part of that biological fact do you object to?
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