"Inalienable human rights"

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Okay, I get that the "Human" part made Azetbur mad. But "inalienable" does not mean "not for aliens". It means "unremovable". As in, no one can take away the fact that someone should be able to have/do/be something, whether or not they actually get the chance to have/do/be it.

I'm surprised the Federation language police hadn't excised that word in favor of a neutral sounding alternative long ago. http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/inalienable

Were they all speaking English or using the translator?

 

[locutus101]

It's hard to tell. Remember those huge translators that both Kirk and Mccoy were holding during the trial? Why would they have those if they could use more discreet ones?

Plus the Klingons around the table said a few words in Klingon and that strongly suggests that they were speaking English/Federationese the rest of the time.

 

[Tenacity]

Chekov should have said "civil rights." Would have avoided the whole matter.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I guess so. Heck, maybe everyone's been speaking Esperanto this whole time (TOS and onward) and the translators are frozen in "on" mode.

What about my first question?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Azetbur was probably just letting slip her distrust of humans in general. She could have checked to see what 'inalienable' meant, she just didn't bother.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

She had no reason to. It seemed obvious.

So tell me; why (in-universe) is that term still acceptable, even though it doesn't mean what she thought it meant? If they cut it out of the accepted English language, it wouldn't be the first time a term that sounded like something else got cut from our vernacular, right?

 

[locutus101]

Maybe it was a glitch of the translator that made it to be "non alien rights" or something to that effect.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Most of the Klingons at the table were of fairly high rank or social standing, so they probably all knew English. I doubt they were using the UT.

 

[Jedi_Master]

It was important - for plot purposes - to highlight the difficulties that the peace process would encounter going forward.

 

[locutus101]

Has anyone noticed that Chang's English was much faster than his Klingon?

 

[Jedi_Master]

Has anyone noticed that Chang's English was much faster than his Klingon?

I imagine he probably could also do a fantastic rendition of "Edelweiss" - if someone asked nicely.

 

[locutus101]

I imagine he probably could also do a fantastic rendition of "Edelweiss" - if someone asked nicely.

I am surprised he didn't ask for some more gruel...

 

[Lance]

I believe the fuller version of the scene before it got edited down had all the characters talking over each other and getting confused about each other's meanings. Add to that a universal translator trying to keep up, and the tone of the scene was meant to be that the Enterprise crew are trying to be good hosts, but (despite themselves) keep saying things that the Klingons take offence to. Azetbur's outrage was originally the culmination of that frustration, but because so much of the dialogue got lost in the editing room, the scene lost a lot of that subtext.

 

[locutus101]

I believe the fuller version of the scene before it got edited down had all the characters talking over each other and getting confused about each other's meanings. Add to that a universal translator trying to keep up, and the tone of the scene was meant to be that the Enterprise crew are trying to be good hosts, but (despite themselves) keep saying things that the Klingons take offence to. Azetbur's outrage was originally the culmination of that frustration, but because so much of the dialogue got lost in the editing room, the scene lost a lot of that subtext.

That's really too bad that they didn't keep the edited parts. Isn't there a director's cut?

 

[Nyotarules]

It was the phrase 'human rights' that upset her, she said the very concept was racist and she was right. The 23rd century Federation and Starfleet reeks of Terran privilege syndrome.

 

[Tosk]

Has anyone noticed that Chang's English was much faster than his Klingon?

That assumes that the Klingon words he was speaking don't get his point across with more specificity than the clumsy human translation. He may be saying a lot more than what you hear.

Most of the Klingons at the table were of fairly high rank or social standing, so they probably all knew English. I doubt they were using the UT.

Only top-of-the-line models can even talk.

 

[Zonker]

It seems like the phrase "Sentient rights" would have been the popular alternative after the federation was formed.

 

[Lance]

That's really too bad that they didn't keep the edited parts. Isn't there a director's cut?

There is, but it doesn't restore those particular cuts. Which is a shame, because the dinner scene is one of the worst edited in the movie, choppy and all over the place. You can literally see where dialogue has been chopped out.

For the record, the full scene was thus:


GORKON
I give you a toast: the undiscovered country. The future.

SPOCK
HAMLET, act three, scene one.

GORKON
You have never experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon.

CHANG
"To be or not to be, that is the question" which preoccupies our people, Captain Kirk. We need BREATHING room...

KIRK
I beg your pardon?

KERLA
Captain Kirk, I thought Romulan ale was illegal.

KIRK
One of the advantages of being a thousand light years from Federation headquarters.

BONES
To you, Chancellor Gorkon: one of the architects of our future.

SCOTTY
Perhaps we are looking at something of that future here.

AZETBUR
Commander Spock, mindful of all your work behind the scenes, and despite the cordiality at this mess, I do not sense an acceptance of our people throughout your ship.

SPOCK
They're naturally wary, ma'am. We've been at war a long time.

UHURA
How do both sides overcome ingrained prejudice?

CHEKOV
Perhaps with a few small steps at a time. Like this one.

BONES
And perhaps with a large step or two. Like a peace treaty.

CHANG
Captain Kirk, are you willing to give up Starfleet?

SPOCK
(looks at Kirk)
I believe the Captain feels that Starfleet's mission has always been one of peace -

KIRK
(glares)
Far be it for me to dispute my first officer. Starfleet has always -

CHANG
Come now, Captain, this dinner is off the record: in space all warriors are cold warriors.

SCOTTY
We have never tried to --

KERLA
You hypocritically presume that your democratic system gives you a moral prerogative to force other cultures to conform to your politics.

BONES
That's not true...!

KERLA
No?

Uhura turns to the Klingon next to her - all tact.

UHURA
General, are YOU fond of Shakespeare?

He looks at her, his hands and mouth full of food. Ugh.
Chekov pursues -

CHEKOV
We do NOT impose democracy on others. We do believe that every planet has a sovereign claim to human rights.

AZETBUR
(spits)
"Human rights." Even the name is racist. The Federation is basically a "homo sapiens" only club...

CHANG
(amused)
Present company excepted, to be sure...

UHURA
Well, I suppose we're not perfect -

SCOTTY
(rising)
Don't let them put words in your mouth! I haven't served 30 years in the engine room of a starship to be accused of gunboat diplomacy!

KERLA
In any case, we know where this is leading: the annihilation of our culture. Klingons will replace those on the lowest rung of the Federation employment ladder, taking menial jobs and performing them for lower pay...

CHEKOV
That's economics, not racism -

UHURA
But you have to admit it adds up to the same thing.

BONES
Don't be naive, Commander -!

UHURA
Who you calling naive -?

Kirk stares sullenly down the table throughout this.

CHEKOV
We're explorers not diplomats!

BONES
Starfleet's killed an awful lot of natural phenomena in the name of "exploration"...

SCOTTY
We follow orders...

CHEKOV
Since when has THAT been an excuse? Diplomacy must resolve these -

SCOTTY
Right - leave it to the politicians to muck it up and leave us defenseless...!

A COUGH interrupts the fight. All eyes on Gorkon.
The Klingons conceal their amusement.

GORKON
(finally)
Well. I see we have a long way to go.

Reactions from Kirk and his officers.

 

[Solariabsg25]

There is, but it doesn't restore those particular cuts. Which is a shame, because the dinner scene is one of the worst edited in the movie, choppy and all over the place. You can literally see where dialogue has been chopped out.

For the record, the full scene was thus:


GORKON
I give you a toast: the undiscovered country. The future.

SPOCK
HAMLET, act three, scene one.

GORKON
You have never experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon.

CHANG
"To be or not to be, that is the question" which preoccupies our people, Captain Kirk. We need BREATHING room...

KIRK
I beg your pardon?

KERLA
Captain Kirk, I thought Romulan ale was illegal.

KIRK
One of the advantages of being a thousand light years from Federation headquarters.

BONES
To you, Chancellor Gorkon: one of the architects of our future.

SCOTTY
Perhaps we are looking at something of that future here.

AZETBUR
Commander Spock, mindful of all your work behind the scenes, and despite the cordiality at this mess, I do not sense an acceptance of our people throughout your ship.

SPOCK
They're naturally wary, ma'am. We've been at war a long time.

UHURA
How do both sides overcome ingrained prejudice?

CHEKOV
Perhaps with a few small steps at a time. Like this one.

BONES
And perhaps with a large step or two. Like a peace treaty.

CHANG
Captain Kirk, are you willing to give up Starfleet?

SPOCK
(looks at Kirk)
I believe the Captain feels that Starfleet's mission has always been one of peace -

KIRK
(glares)
Far be it for me to dispute my first officer. Starfleet has always -

CHANG
Come now, Captain, this dinner is off the record: in space all warriors are cold warriors.

SCOTTY
We have never tried to --

KERLA
You hypocritically presume that your democratic system gives you a moral prerogative to force other cultures to conform to your politics.

BONES
That's not true...!

KERLA
No?

Uhura turns to the Klingon next to her - all tact.

UHURA
General, are YOU fond of Shakespeare?

He looks at her, his hands and mouth full of food. Ugh.
Chekov pursues -

CHEKOV
We do NOT impose democracy on others. We do believe that every planet has a sovereign claim to human rights.

AZETBUR
(spits)
"Human rights." Even the name is racist. The Federation is basically a "homo sapiens" only club...

CHANG
(amused)
Present company excepted, to be sure...

UHURA
Well, I suppose we're not perfect -

SCOTTY
(rising)
Don't let them put words in your mouth! I haven't served 30 years in the engine room of a starship to be accused of gunboat diplomacy!

KERLA
In any case, we know where this is leading: the annihilation of our culture. Klingons will replace those on the lowest rung of the Federation employment ladder, taking menial jobs and performing them for lower pay...

CHEKOV
That's economics, not racism -

UHURA
But you have to admit it adds up to the same thing.

BONES
Don't be naive, Commander -!

UHURA
Who you calling naive -?

Kirk stares sullenly down the table throughout this.

CHEKOV
We're explorers not diplomats!

BONES
Starfleet's killed an awful lot of natural phenomena in the name of "exploration"...

SCOTTY
We follow orders...

CHEKOV
Since when has THAT been an excuse? Diplomacy must resolve these -

SCOTTY
Right - leave it to the politicians to muck it up and leave us defenseless...!

A COUGH interrupts the fight. All eyes on Gorkon.
The Klingons conceal their amusement.

GORKON
(finally)
Well. I see we have a long way to go.

Reactions from Kirk and his officers.

Interesting - was Kirk's "Earth, Hitler 1938" line and Chang's response a reshoot or added in script changes?

 

[Tenacity]

It seems like the phrase "Sentient rights" would have been the popular alternative after the federation was formed.

You have to remember, while the Federation was over a hundred years old, the majority of Starfleet officers at the table were born and raised on Earth, and spent their lives immersed in Earth cultural idioms.