In the future of Syntehol, is there underage drinking?

[fireproof78]

The Federation is interesting in that there is some preplanning and social ownership implied, though not stated:
KIRK: Well. But they've rejected all that and all that this technology provides. And they seek the primitive.
SPOCK: There are many who are uncomfortable with what we have created. It is almost a biological rebellion. A profound revulsion against the planned communities, the programming, the sterilised, artfully balanced atmospheres. They hunger for an Eden where spring comes.
KIRK: All do. The cave is deep in our memory.
SPOCK: Yes, that is true, Captain.
KIRK: But we don't steal space cruisers and act like irresponsible children. KIRK: What makes you so sympathetic toward them?
SPOCK: It is not sympathy so much as curiosity, Captain. A wish to understand. They regard themselves as aliens in their own worlds, a condition with which I am somewhat familiar.

 

[cooleddie74]

One reason why "The Way to Eden(TOS)" is a better episode than its reputation presupposes. There's some world building for the Federation in that episode even if it's barely referenced.

 

[Nyotarules]

The UFP drinking laws shouldn't be based on ancient US legislation

 

[Michael Two Wolves]

The UFP drinking laws shouldn't be based on ancient US legislation

it’s likely they have some form of kinderbier.

My point is just that. There’s a large group that loves all the flash of space opera, but we love exploring the factories and other areas that make them unique. I want to see what the dive bars and city planets look like. I want to see the technologies these other worlds use.

That is why to me, blue-collar types actually building pieces of what we see on tv all the time fascinates me. We saw it in Star Wars every time the Falcon broke down.

I want to see the orbital shipyards and the wide angle shots of the interiors or stations where they look like something out of Mass Effect.

The fringes are where conflict is, and conflict is always interesting. Those types of teens are very likely to be the types who steal a beer and hang out with their friends, and they’re the types who grow up into interesting characters. Would loved to have seen the guts of a shuttle with O’Brien elbow deep in it.

 

[fireproof78]

One reason why "The Way to Eden(TOS)" is a better episode than its reputation presupposes. There's some world building for the Federation in that episode even if it's barely referenced.

Indeed, yes.

But, such things usually get ignored in favor of the Starfleet way because that is the overall audience preference. It might not be the only life, but it is the more entertaining one. Or sells the most.

 

[Ragitsu]

an eyeroll

Around Halloween, that word carries a different connotation.

conflict is always interesting.

Not at the DMV...not at all. No siree.

 

[fireproof78]

Or with my uncle, and his prosthetic eye.

 

[Orphalesion]

Don't get me wrong--I've had friends who were very much Wesley Crusher types. There's nothing wrong with goody-two shoes types. Some of us just find we value individual expression more than the law.

It's alright not everybody has to like the same things.
However...to me it's not about the law. I'm just being me. It just happens to align with laws in many places All kinds of drugs and violent behaviour could be perfectly legal or even encouraged, and I'd still not be interested in them. I'm milquetoast and I'm happy being milquetoast. To me that is my individual expression. Always has been. And I am a boy from a working class background (though I'm a homosexual man, which, granted is very different from a heterosexual one)

That was just my point. To people like me, the Federation as presented in TNG would not be a "gilded cage" since there's nothing that we'd miss.
And people who do feel stifled by the Federation, there's always the option to leave it. Nobody is forced to stay and its a big universe.

it’s likely they have some form of kinderbier.

My point is just that. There’s a large group that loves all the flash of space opera, but we love exploring the factories and other areas that make them unique. I want to see what the dive bars and city planets look like. I want to see the technologies these other worlds use.

That is why to me, blue-collar types actually building pieces of what we see on tv all the time fascinates me. We saw it in Star Wars every time the Falcon broke down.

I want to see the orbital shipyards and the wide angle shots of the interiors or stations where they look like something out of Mass Effect.

Have you watched the Expanse? I think you'd like the Expanse. You'd also like Season 1 Picard, probably for the same reasons I hated it.

There's also the thing where I'd propose that not all SciFi needs to be Star Trek, and Star Trek doesn't need to be all SciFi.
I mean there's plenty of movies and shows that explore "blue collar" or "shady underworld" SciFi. So I think there's no intrinsic need for Star Trek to explore that.

 

[Michael Two Wolves]

Ah, but that’s just it. Some of us would like to see that underworld in the Star Trek universe. It is, after all, called Star Trek, not Starfleet TV. Not everything must revolve around Starfleet and it would be interesting to see a contrast against the backdrop of Starfleet space. A spacer-turned-mercenary, for instance, that runs around doing missions for gangsters and other criminals, in a suped-up freighter with a Romulan subversive for a partner who has a death mark for telling the Tal Shiar to kiss his Liberty-loving backside is a show I could dig in the Star Trek universe.

I’ll have to check out the new shows.

 

[fireproof78]

It just happens to align with laws in many places All kinds of drugs and violent behaviour could be perfectly legal or even encouraged, and I'd still not be interested in them. I'm milk toast and I'm happy being milk toast. To me that is my individual expression.

Same here.

And people who do feel stifled by the Federation, there's always the option to leave it. Nobody is forced to stay and its a big universe.

Exactly. It's ridiculous to assume that that is all there is.

But, the adventures in Star Trek are about Starfleet crews. That's been the driving force for, oh, a couple of decades or so.

There's also the thing where I'd propose that not all SciFi needs to be Star Trek, and Star Trek doesn't need to be all SciFi.
I mean there's plenty of movies and shows that explore "blue collar" or "shady underworld" SciFi. So I think there's no intrinsic need for Star Trek to explore that.

Agreed. The closest I would get is kind of similar to Firefly, except more positive, with them living out on the furthest reaches of the Federation, and working to build up a colony while also working with Starfleet to protect the locals in some fashion.

I'm not for Star Trek: Underworld. Save that for John Wick.

 

[1001001]

I like my Trek aspirational. Inspirational. Hopeful.

There’s plenty of gritty, camera shaking, grim dark stuff out there.

 

[fireproof78]

Ah, but that’s just it. Some of us would like to see that underworld in the Star Trek universe. It is, after all, called Star Trek, not Starfleet TV. Not everything must revolve around Starfleet and it would be interesting to see a contrast against the backdrop of Starfleet space. A spacer-turned-mercenary, for instance, that runs around doing missions for gangsters and other criminals, in a suped-up freighter with a Romulan subversive for a partner who has a death mark for telling the Tal Shiar to kiss his Liberty-loving backside is a show I could dig in the Star Trek universe.

I’ll have to check out the new shows.

Pretty sure this is Firefly mixed with Renegades with a Star Trek paint job.

 

[Michael Two Wolves]

Renegades is set in the tired ass galactic civil war or right before it if I’m not mistaken, and still involves getting into shenanigans with the Empire.

it can be fake and gritty while still being aspirational. Look what they did with the new Lost In Soace show.

 

[fireproof78]

A mercenary on the run is not aspirational.

It's putting money first again.

 

[Michael Two Wolves]

By your argument, Renegades is just a money grab then. It’s not aspirational.

 

[Ragitsu]

No.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Star Trek: Underworlds sounds like shit.

There are others shows that do that. They do it well. Long may Star Trek be centred around folks in brightly coloured uniforms hanging out on the bridge of a Federation starship. That's what Star Trek fundamentally is.

 

[fireproof78]

By your argument, Renegades is just a money grab then. It’s not aspirational.

No.

Being a mercenary in the Star Trek world is putting money first and thus not as aspirational as has been presented about 24th century humanity.

Star Trek is always a money grab. It's a business first.

Star Trek: Underworlds sounds like shit.

There are others shows that do that. They do it will. Long may Star Trek be centred around folks in brightly coloured uniforms hanging out on the bridge of a Federation starship. That's what Star Trek fundamentally is.

Yup.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

There’s The Expanse for all that stuff. For what it’s worth, a prefer The Expanse to Star Trek x 1000, but I wouldn’t want Star Trek to be like that.

Let Star Trek be Star Trek.

WTF is this discussion about anyway? I thought it was about underage drinking or something?

 

[fireproof78]

I thought there was going to be refreshments.