In The 23rd Century . . .

[gottacook]

I'm not convinced of that. People tend to assume he had Q-like powers, but really, the episode established that he needed technological assistance to do his tricks. He lost his power when Kirk destroyed the machine behind the mirror, and when Trelane came back, he explained that the machine was not the only "instrumentality" at his disposal. So he didn't have godlike magic, he had machinery. And that machinery didn't really do much that couldn't be done with a transporter, a holodeck, and a replicator. He couldn't even create fire with warmth or food with taste. And his observations of Earth were limited by the speed of light, which suggests even less advanced sensors than the Enterprise had.

Perhaps these limitations were only because he was a child? His parents, for all we know, could have had Q-like powers, and Trelane himself will, one day. [edit: I see another commenter had the same thought.]

To restate what I wrote earlier: There's a discrepancy not only between this and other episodes and movies (the "900 years" dialogue) but also within this one episode, because if he'd known a Strauss waltz he surely would have been playing a piano and not a harpsichord when we first meet him. (Even if he'd known of nothing more recent than the era of Napoleon and Hamilton, early pianos had already largely replaced harpsichords by then; he should have been playing Beethoven.)

 

[Christopher]

I don't see how this can necessarily be true. They may not have been Q but the parents did have some pretty godlike powers.

Like what? The only things his parents did were:

1) Materialize.
2) Chastise Trelane.
3) Make Trelane vanish.
4) Maintain the Earthlike environment until Kirk beamed up.

I don't see anything "godlike" there. They didn't do anything that Trelane couldn't have done with his "instrumentality," or that a 24th-century Federation citizen couldn't have done with a transporter and a weather-control station. Again, the only remotely "godlike" thing is when they tell Trelane they won't let him make any more planets, but that could be referring to simulations or holoprojections of some kind.

That Trelane needed tech to accomplish a lot of his goals and the fact that all he could really do was move the planet on his own play well into the idea that he is but a "child." He hasn't fully developed his powers at this point in his life.

Maybe. That's what fans always assume because Trelane's parents remind us of the Organians and Thasians (and later on, Trelane himself reminded us of Q), and so there's a reflexive assumption that they "must" have powers on the same level. But if you question that assumption and just look strictly at the evidence in the episode itself, there's simply no proof of it. Yes, it could be that Trelane was immature and his parents were far more powerful, but the episode is also consistent with the interpretation that Trelane's race simply possesses advanced technology.

After all, there is precedent in Trek for incorporeal races that use technology rather than mental powers, such as the Wisps from ENT: "The Crossing" (who had a starship), or various races that needed to possess living beings or machines in order to have a physical effect (e.g. Redjac, the "Beyond the Farthest Star" creature, the "Lonely Among Us" entities, etc.).

 

[Ithekro]

Sufficiently advanced technology is no different than magic. The Q could be all tech, but at such an advanced level that no human or other 24th century race normally encountered could fathom it. Q's not about to let the savage humans in on his technological secrets even if he can setup Riker with similar powers or provide weapons to Voyager's crew. None of the humans understand these things, just that they are.

So Trelane having similar powers, but liking to play with his toys is not too far out to be believed. He may or may not be Q in terms of species. He may be part of the Q race as originally presented in "Encounter at Farpoint". They seemed to also have a several centuries old idea of what humanity was, like Trelane. Q was up to the late 21st century in knowledge at that time it seemed, while Trelane was up to the 19th century. One century (roughly) had past since Trelane's encounter with Kirk. Trelane's parents move their knowledge towards Earth for a century at just over light speed and by Picard's time can see things into the late 21st century. They don't like what they see and remember what happened to Trelane. Q stopped he next Enterprise he finds and tells them to go back. Fits up to that point.

Later on the Q become more and more godlike, though again, possibly just advanced technology, and evolution into an energy based lifeform.

 

[johnnybear]

We're forgetting that Q was probably based on Trelane and not the other way round! Plus maybe Trelane didn't move the planet but kept the Enterprise on a galactic yoyo like string so they could never really escape the place!
JB

 

[Christopher]

Sufficiently advanced technology is no different than magic.

Only to people who don't understand it. The technology of the 24th-century Federation would seem like magic to preindustrial races (see "Who Watches the Watchers"), but would seem mundane to 24th-century citizens. That's my point. Aside from (apparently) moving Gothos, nothing Trelane did is beyond the reach of TNG-era Federation technology, and some of what he did was less than the 24th century is capable of.

 

[BillJ]

Sufficiently advanced technology is no different than magic.

Only to people who don't understand it. The technology of the 24th-century Federation would seem like magic to preindustrial races (see "Who Watches the Watchers"), but would seem mundane to 24th-century citizens. That's my point. Aside from (apparently) moving Gothos, nothing Trelane did is beyond the reach of TNG-era Federation technology, and some of what he did was less than the 24th century is capable of.

Problem being, we know Trelane is a child. A child of the 24th century is still going to take time to do all those amazing things. Trelane had likely barely tapped his true potential.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Perhaps these limitations were only because he was a child?

Bingo.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe Trelane didn't literally move Gothos, just confused Enterprise's sensors to make it appear so.

 

[Franklin]

Trelane could more or less do as he pleased up to and including moving his planet. He could have been anywhere in time and space.

I'm not convinced of that. People tend to assume he had Q-like powers, but really, the episode established that he needed technological assistance to do his tricks. He lost his power when Kirk destroyed the machine behind the mirror, and when Trelane came back, he explained that the machine was not the only "instrumentality" at his disposal. So he didn't have godlike magic, he had machinery. And that machinery didn't really do much that couldn't be done with a transporter, a holodeck, and a replicator. He couldn't even create fire with warmth or food with taste. And his observations of Earth were limited by the speed of light, which suggests even less advanced sensors than the Enterprise had.

The only really powerful thing Trelane was shown to do was moving Gothos, and given how limited his abilities were in other respects, I'm not convinced that wasn't just an illusion, perhaps a massive holographic projection.

This is very plausible and I would subscribe to it. I've never really seen Trelane as a "Q-like" character, even a juvenile one. Q seems to be far more than the Trelane beings are. Non-corporal beings may still rely on technology, and Trelane was probably either given "toys" that had limited capabilities, or he was playing with "adult" things he really shouldn't have had and he was either misusing them or didn't know how to use them properly.

There are two things I've always wondered about him though:
-- Through what power was he able to make Uhura play the harpsichord so well? That did seem Q-like.
-- How did he know the sounds of Earth (like language and music)? He was observing light from Earth that took 900 years to reach him. Continuing the premise, that would be like watching TV with the sound off. It's also why he wouldn't know of the taste of food or the warmth of fire (though the latter seems weird -- any being should be aware of what fire is like).

 

[Christopher]

Okay, controlling Uhura was a fairly advanced feat, but it could've been done by uploading the knowhow into her brain Matrix-style -- ahead of Picard, but nowhere near Q-level. (And basically the inverse of what Nomad did to her.)

The problem is, we tend to assume that all abilities more advanced than our own are equally advanced -- we see anything we can't immediately explain and jump to calling it "Q-level" or "godlike." But that ignores the fact that there's a very, very wide continuum between human technology and Q-level power. Instead of all superbeings having identical abilities, there's probably quite a hierarchy of different power levels. The Q might be as far ahead of Trelane's species as Trelane's species is ahead of the Kazon.

 

[Timo]

Since Trelane was a child, he wouldn't be using technology efficiently or as intended. Bringing this analogy down to Earth, if he wanted to see what dad was doing at work downtown, he wouldn't activate the webcam (even when daddy had shown him how) - he would dig out his telescope and set it up precariously on the roof (exactly like daddy had told not to).

Don't be misled by his adult turn of speech: that's just part of him dressing up as a human. Odds are, he makes childish mistakes and covers them up by lying implausibly, and by throwing the occasional temper tantrum. Heck, we see him do that!

As for his planet, there are two good reasons to think it really moves:

1) It does outrun a starship (be it at high impulse only).
2) It is found where no planets should exist, at least not with a gaseous atmosphere (in the middle of a star desert).

Is the whole planet but an illusion? Perhaps. But again, Trelane is a childish child. IMHO, he is less likely to have a visual illusion than the real thing, the same way a kid is less likely to have a television than he is to have a cardboard box with "TleVusoN" penciled above the big hole on the side.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shawnster]

Since Trelane was a child, he wouldn't be using technology efficiently or as intended. Bringing this analogy down to Earth, if he wanted to see what dad was doing at work downtown, he wouldn't activate the webcam (even when daddy had shown him how) - he would dig out his telescope and set it up precariously on the roof (exactly like daddy had told not to).

Not necessarily. To state that a child can not use technology as efficiently as an adult is a blanket statement that is decidedly false and demeaning to children. I've seen plenty of 12 year olds who can an do use technology and display skills and talents far surpassing their parents. Just consider the kids that can use computers, tablets and smartphones far better than their parents. Look at the kids in the county fair that can ride horses or drive heavy farm equipment. Not to mention that I'm of the generation where we, as children, could program the VCR that confounded our parents.

Now, Trelane was a spoiled child and displayed lack of maturity or discipline, and this is somewhat contrary to those children that excel at certain skills and abilities.

Somewhat.

 

[Christopher]

^Oh, I can totally buy that. Trelane is the master hacker with the mirror machine, able to whip up planets and castles and harpsichords on a whim, while his parents can barely figure out how to use it to check their e-mail.

 

[Alter Ego]

A tad off topic but all this talk of Trelane prompted me to watch the episode again. I have to say there is a moment that I hadn't noticed before that I thought was quite nice in a way. While Trelane's folks are bawling him out, Trelane makes those ever so pitiful pleas which anyone who has been around children have heard, " I would've won, I would've!" Around that moment the camera cuts back to Kirk who looks at Trelane with the kind of sympathy one feels when we see a kid going through a similar situation.

It almost felt like Kirk was going to jump into the conversation and say something like, "Hey folks, the little guy didn't mean any real harm and since the two of you are back to keep an eye on things, why don't the boy and I have a quick game of capture the flag?" Tussles Trelane's hair while saying, "How about it, big guy? Wanna play Capture the Flag?"
"Golly-gee, Captain would I ever?"

*Leave It To Beaver exit music*

 

[urbandefault]

Trelane could more or less do as he pleased up to and including moving his planet. He could have been anywhere in time and space.

I'm not convinced of that. People tend to assume he had Q-like powers, but really, the episode established that he needed technological assistance to do his tricks. He lost his power when Kirk destroyed the machine behind the mirror, and when Trelane came back, he explained that the machine was not the only "instrumentality" at his disposal. So he didn't have godlike magic, he had machinery. And that machinery didn't really do much that couldn't be done with a transporter, a holodeck, and a replicator. He couldn't even create fire with warmth or food with taste. And his observations of Earth were limited by the speed of light, which suggests even less advanced sensors than the Enterprise had.

The only really powerful thing Trelane was shown to do was moving Gothos, and given how limited his abilities were in other respects, I'm not convinced that wasn't just an illusion, perhaps a massive holographic projection.

That makes Trelane more like Ardra than Q, right?

 

[Christopher]

That makes Trelane more like Ardra than Q, right?

Perhaps. Somewhere in between, but probably closer to Ardra's level than the Q's level. The analogy that comes to mind for me is the Excalbians -- both races could engage in selective terraforming and transform their appearance at will, and both had a fetish for historical recreations, though the Excalbians seemed to have superior information-gathering methods.

Honestly, I used to be skeptical that Q himself was as powerful as he claimed. Most of the larger reality-altering things he seemed to do could've easily been illusions. But there were some pretty massive things he clearly did do, like correcting the orbit of that moon in "Deja Q." And "The Q and the Gray" pretty much affirmed that the Continuum did have cosmic-level powers, since their civil war set off multiple supernovae in our reality.

 

[Kilana2]

This whole discussion reminds me of Trelane pulling all that pranks in Peter David´s Q-squared. Entertaining, especially his appearance in Enterprise´s kindergarten

 

[Timo]

To state that a child can not use technology as efficiently as an adult is a blanket statement that is decidedly false and demeaning to children.

Heh, nope. To state that children couldn't might be a blanket statement. But I can attest to it being very, very common for kids to avoid efficiency like broccoli (although several appear to fancy broccoli, too). Just because a child would know how to skype daddy at work does not mean he would prefer that over erecting the telescope.

That the choice to use ineffective means to an end might lead to unforeseen consequences is another classic part of kids' life...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Trelane was a child. It would make about as much sense to extrapolate the capabilities and limitations of his species from observing him as it would to extrapolate the capabilities and limitations of people from observing our children play.

Trelane was probably concerned with instrumentality at that particular moment simply because the people he was playing with were concerned with it. Trelane is playing, when a starship of people who depend on instrumentality comes upon him. To play with them, he decides to try to meet them on their terms and better them. That doesn't mean that Trelane depends upon instrumentality himself.

Toys of a god-child would probably seem seriously impressive to a mortal, just as our children tower over ants, both literally and figuratively.

 

[Ithekro]

Lincoln Logs of the gods? Or Construx with motors and stuff.