In Defense of Star Trek V and William "Ego" Shatner

[malchya]

I'll agree with you on the Quality of Shatner's performance. But I've always felt that he was under rated as an actor. My favorite example to illustrate the actual level of his craft is one word from VI (admittedly not my favorite of the films). When his response to Chang on the transporter platform is simply, "Right." Watch the man's eyes, his body language! Superb delivery!

 

[jk82]

I'll agree with you on the Quality of Shatner's performance. But I've always felt that he was under rated as an actor. My favorite example to illustrate the actual level of his craft is one word from VI (admittedly not my favorite of the films). When his response to Chang on the transporter platform is simply, "Right." Watch the man's eyes, his body language! Superb delivery!

I too think he is hugely underrated. I don't get this Ham label splashed on him. Other than a few times in TOS when he has to be more dramatic due to the poor nature of the scripts, he does not "overact" at all. In ST movies I don't think he overacts once, yes I said it, that "Khan" scream is not overacting. Sure he "overacts" in 3rd Rock from the Sun but so does everyone else in that show, isn't that the purpose?

Now I am officially a fan of Mr. Shatner I have diligently watched his works (as thoroughly as I can). Even if I had not watched ST:TOS, I would still have regarded him a wonderful actor based on his other performances. As a guest star he manages to upstage some main cast members from various TV series. For example in the relatively obscure The Big Valley: The Time to Kill, the way he speaks his last two lines in the episode is just too cool. In his lost years he had fewer options and had to settle with less quality works but he was not all that bad either. Heck, he is quite delightful in Kingdom of Spiders.

In my honest opinion he was too pretty and too "intellectual" looking to be considered for most leading roles back in the 50s and 60s. His acting skills certainly were good enough for any leading role. But back then most leading men were either ruggedly handsome or ruggedly ugly. It wasn't until he became a little rugged himself did he get the ST role. Beauty can be a curse sometimes.

The question is: I have seen TOS like 5 times (the first two seasons), I have seen ST movies 1-6 (with 7 on the way), and I have seen most of Mr. Shatner's films/TV shows/youtube clips (yep, even the one posted today on his channel) that I could find. Now what am I going to do?

Get a life maybe? LOL

 

[Alrik]

Short answer. Boston Legal...DENNY CRANE!

 

[jayrath]

The whole thing suffers from the success of STIV; humor was shoe-horned in, appropriately or not.

Anyway, I really don't care if performers of the lesser parts didn't get the screen time they wanted. Movies are not talent shows. If a character contributes to the plot, then there's time on screen. If not -- bye!

And why does everyone blame Shatner, but not the writers? Or the producer?
Or the studio heads who approved the script? This is a very simplistic understanding of how movies are actually made.

 

[jk82]

And why does everyone blame Shatner, but not the writers? Or the producer?
Or the studio heads who approved the script? This is a very simplistic understanding of how movies are actually made.

Because Mr. Shatner also came up with the whole search for god concept? But of course the studio could have disapproved the script, though I find nothing wrong with the Mr. Shatner's original idea about searching for the true god, if that god exists, that is.

Anyway I dare anyone to say TFF is a worse movie than movies like Thor (awful), Matrix 2/3 (double awful), Star Wars 1,2,3 (triple awful), etc.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Anyway I dare anyone to say TFF is a worse movie than movies like Thor (awful), Matrix 2/3 (double awful), Star Wars 1,2,3 (triple awful), etc.

No problem.

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier is worse than any Star Wars movie, including The Clone Wars. I personally think STV:TFF is worse than Thor.

However, I agree on The Matrix 2 and 3. They stank.

 

[jk82]

Anyway I dare anyone to say TFF is a worse movie than movies like Thor (awful), Matrix 2/3 (double awful), Star Wars 1,2,3 (triple awful), etc.

No problem.

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier is worse than any Star Wars movie, including The Clone Wars. I personally think STV:TFF is worse than Thor.

However, I agree on The Matrix 2 and 3. They stank.

I was just kidding. I wasn't daring anyone. I like Star Wars IV-VI. The Empire Strikes Back was the first SW movie I saw in theater, during SW's re-release. It is also my favorite out of the whole series. I cannot stand those prequels though. Didn't even bother seeing the second and third in theater after the first. The only reason I listed Thor is because I just saw it last night. It is another movie that should not have been made. I saw it only because the main guy was also in ST XI. I admit I liked him more than Kirk in that movie.

Just for fun anyway, TFF is no Blade Runner, but is it really worse than these films:

POTC 3/4
Transformers 1/2/3
Iron man 2
Spider-man 3
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Green lantern
Superman Returns
Harry Potter 1,2,4,5,6,8
Twilight 1-200
Cars 2
Terminator Salvation
The Day the Earth Stood Still (not the old one, which is very good)
War of the Worlds (not the old one)
2012

Too many to list...
??

 

[malchya]

If I had to choose one movie from the following list as the only movie I could take with me on an extended sea journey with no other media recreation, I wonder which it would be?

Matrix 2/3
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace
Star Wars: Attack of the Clones
Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi
Transformers (any)
PotC (any)
Star Trek: The Voyage Home
Star Trek: The Final Frontier
Star Trek: Generations
Star Trek: Insurrection
Star Trek: Nemesis
I am Legend
War of the Worlds (Cruise)
Avatar
Surrogates
I, Robot
Minority Report
and et bloody cetera...

The winner would be Star Trek: The Final Frontier.

 

[jk82]

If I had to choose one movie from the following list as the only movie I could take with me on an extended sea journey with no other media recreation, I wonder which it would be?

Matrix 2/3
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace
Star Wars: Attack of the Clones
Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi
Transformers (any)
PotC (any)
Star Trek: The Voyage Home
Star Trek: The Final Frontier
Star Trek: Generations
Star Trek: Insurrection
Star Trek: Nemesis
I am Legend
War of the Worlds (Cruise)
Avatar
Surrogates
I, Robot
Minority Report
and et bloody cetera...

The winner would be Star Trek: The Final Frontier.

And all the above films are "popular" and "financially successful", are they not?

There are so many bad "special effects-laden" films out there. Star Trek fans are lucky that ST films at worst (not counting 7-10 since I have not seen them) are still better than average ...

If I went on the same journey I only needed to bring ST:TOS with me. Worlds may change, galaxies disintegrate, but ST:TOS will always remain special... I was on a long, excruciatingly boring flight not long ago. I was thinking as soon as I landed I had to get some ST fix, then I flipped open the inflight magazine. Guess who was staring at me right out of the page? Mr. Shatner. I was happy and content for the rest of the flight.

 

[inflatabledalek]

Just rewatched TFF on my journey through the Blu-Rays and HD hasn't really changed my opinion. Lots of isolated good bits but the sheer stupidity of the plot structure just undoes the whole thing. Sybok's entire plan depends on Star Fleet being good enough to send a bit of a crap ship without transporters for easy hostage rescues or a massive and difficult to control crew. He's just a third rate moron who only gets as far as he does because the heroes seem determined to out-stupid him.

One thing I've realised going through the films this time, is Waltr Koenig may not get much to do, but he merrily grabs what he's given and manages to get one film stealing moment in most of the films. "Warp speen NOW!".

 

[malchya]

I'm really rather impressed with Koenig altogether. I just watched "Of Gods and Men" on youtube and found myself thinking "I never realized he was that good." But, on rewatching, he has always been that good. (Well, save the off scene or two that every actor is allowed.)

 

[jk82]

I'm really rather impressed with Koenig altogether. I just watched "Of Gods and Men" on youtube and found myself thinking "I never realized he was that good." But, on rewatching, he has always been that good. (Well, save the off scene or two that every actor is allowed.)

I think he is pretty good too. Chekov is my most favorite out of the Gang of Four.

Kirk>Bones>Spock>>>>>>>>>Chekov>=Scotty>Uhura>>>>>>>.......>>>>Sulu.

 

[inflatabledalek]

He's an exceptionally good complete bastard in Babylon 5 as well.

 

[Satyrquaze]

If I had to choose one movie from the following list as the only movie I could take with me on an extended sea journey with no other media recreation, I wonder which it would be?

Matrix 2/3
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace
Star Wars: Attack of the Clones
Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi
Transformers (any)
PotC (any)
Star Trek: The Voyage Home
Star Trek: The Final Frontier
Star Trek: Generations
Star Trek: Insurrection
Star Trek: Nemesis
I am Legend
War of the Worlds (Cruise)
Avatar
Surrogates
I, Robot
Minority Report
and et bloody cetera...

The winner would be Star Trek: The Final Frontier.

I read this and question wonder how or why someone could want to expose themselves to something THAT subpar on purpose, let alone repeatedly.

 

[jk82]

If I had to choose one movie from the following list as the only movie I could take with me on an extended sea journey with no other media recreation, I wonder which it would be?

Matrix 2/3
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace
Star Wars: Attack of the Clones
Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi
Transformers (any)
PotC (any)
Star Trek: The Voyage Home
Star Trek: The Final Frontier
Star Trek: Generations
Star Trek: Insurrection
Star Trek: Nemesis
I am Legend
War of the Worlds (Cruise)
Avatar
Surrogates
I, Robot
Minority Report
and et bloody cetera...

The winner would be Star Trek: The Final Frontier.

I read this and question wonder how or why someone could want to expose themselves to something THAT subpar on purpose, let alone repeatedly.

I don't see anything THAT subpar here. After all none of them is on the bottom 100 list of IMDB.

I know someone who saw a particular movie 100+ times in theater in one summer. Imagine spending close to 1000 dollars and 300 hours on one movie. That is real dedication. Who cares if the movie is not Citizen Kane or Seven Samurai. As long as one feels happy he is free to do anything he wants.

 

[malchya]

Sub par? Compared to the other snoozers on my list, TFF is a gem!

 

[Satyrquaze]

I don't see anything THAT subpar here. After all none of them is on the bottom 100 list of IMDB.

I know someone who saw a particular movie 100+ times in theater in one summer. Imagine spending close to 1000 dollars and 300 hours on one movie. That is real dedication. Who cares if the movie is not Citizen Kane or Seven Samurai. As long as one feels happy he is free to do anything he wants.

He was stating his opinion, I was stating mine. I personally can count no less than ten films on that list I would rather see again rather than watch TFF again.

Sub par? Compared to the other snoozers on my list, TFF is a gem!

I believe that the Mythbusters proved last year that it is indeed physically possible to polish fecal matter, It is my belief that you are doing the same.

 

[malchya]

LOL! A true "diamond in the rough." To each his own would be my summation.

 

[Satyrquaze]

^ Agreed.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I rate it as in the "bottom three" of "Insurrection, Nemesis, and The Undiscovered Country."

I think that the movie is entertaining in many places. Honestly, I actually like the idea that the Federation royally screwed the pooch by making a new Enterprise only for their new model of ship to be a complete disaster.

I also love the idea of a Vulcan who seeks to embrace emotions. I also think the whole, "Search for God" plot is actually quite entertaining and very Trekkian. After all, despite or because of Roddenberry one of the main themes of Trek is man vs. God and man's relationship to him.

It's just....man.