Improving Some of the Weaker Movie Villains

[The Overlord]

Star Trek movies have featured some of the greatest villains of the franchise, like Khan. When you get past Khan and maybe Chang, the villains start getting a bit weak. How would you imorove some of the villains in the movies? Here is some ideas I had.

1. Ru’afo is a villain that has no real direction. No real sympathetic qualities on the surface, until a twist in the last act that makes him unintentionally sympathetic. They should have played up the sympathy and made his conflict with the Ba'ku a gray vs. gray type battle or just made him a pure evil alien invader who had no connection to the Ba'ku and is willing to kill millions of strangers just to make himself immortal.

2. Shinzon, here is another villain who seems to shift between trying to be sympathetic to trying to be pure evil depending on the scene. We are supposed to sympathize with him due to his back story, then he tries to mind rape Troi and destroy the Federation for no good reason. Again either play up the sympathy and make his target Romulus, wanting revenge on the people who ruined his life and Picard trying to save one the Federation's greatest enemies. Or make him more evil by turning him into a ambitious Romulan commander who wants to destroy the Federation in his first step of making a new Romulan Empire that would dominate the galaxy and just ditch the clone/Reman stuff.

Sfdebris also had some suggestions how to improve Nero (noting some of the back story he got in the comics that was not present in the movies):

http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/star-trek-2009-review-part-1-5856486

What Star Trek movie villains do you think needed improvement and how would you improve them?

 

[Lance]

I sort of agree about Shinzon. I'd remove the clone stuff, but keep the Reman thing. There's a scene early on in Nemesis where we're given an intriguing picture of what Starfleet knows about the new Praetor: absolutely nothing. It would make for a more intriguing villain to make him analogous to Kim Jong-un; somebody who comes into power as an unknown quantity, and therefore the story becomes about how this could shift the balances of power in galactic politics. Who is this Reman guy? What's his story? What are his intentions towards the other galactic powers? How does his coming into power unexpectedly change the Romulan Empire? Suddenly, he's a much more interesting villain than the one we got in the actual movie.

What scuppers him in the actual movie is that once we get into all that I-Was-A-Clone-Of-You-Who-Got-Abandoned stuff, suddenly the character loses that ambiguity, that mystery, that enigmacy that the early parts of the movie kind of brought up. Instead of being about Shinzon and how his elevation to power affects the rest of the galaxy, the story instead becomes simply about Shinzon and Picard. Strangely enough, he stops being an interesting villain precisely because it becomes a personal story (for Picard), instead of being an impersonal one (about Shinzon).

 

[EnriqueH]

I've enjoyed most of the villains on the Trek films. I always loved Khan and Chang. nuKhan was badass too.

1) Kruge is not as good, but he's still a good villain and I find that Kruge and his crew influenced Klingons from there on out.

2) Klaa was a bit too much like a Kruge clone.

3) Loved Sybok, though the movie didn't help him.

4) Loved Soran, though the movie didn't help him.

5) I don't like the Borg Queen. In her defense, I have not seen the movie in a few years (though I did go through a phase where I saw it over and over), so I might need to rewatch. But I feel she lessened the Borg's menace. F. Murray Abraham and Shinzon were missed opportunities, but the Borg Queen was the greater sin because it took a cool, interesting, and menacing villain and took all the intrigue away. Still, it's a testament to the movie that it was still awesome.

6) F. Murray Abraham was wasted in the role. As I mentioned elsewhere, I have not seen Insurrection since 1998, but I don't remember him being a good villain, but I also don't remember him being in the movie much.

7) Shinzon was "hot and cold". I liked Tom Hardy, but I also did not buy the clone thing, so you could improve him by getting rid of the clone stuff.

 

[Lance]

The thing I really love about Kruge is that he's a true "anti villain". He does some despicable things, but if you look at it from his point-of-view, then it seems he's just trying to discover what this super secret Project Genesis (which he assumes is some kind of a weapon) is all about.

 

[Trimm]

Kruge gets a bad wrap from following Khan. I think Christopher Lloyd does a fantastic job in ST3, and the Kruge character is one of the highlights of the film.

I agree that Sybok and Soran were both ill served by the scripts, the actors in both cases I think do good to great work with what's there.

Ru'afo suffers greatly from being both written and played far too broadly. The OTT villian is part of the really awful tonal shifts that plague INS.

Shinzon is an interesting case. Tom Hardy certainly does his best with the material, although he comes across as smarmy more than menancing for most of the film. Overall the character suffers I think from one too many plot tics. Look, it's the new Reman praetor, but he's actually a human. But wait, he's really a clone of Picard! But WAIT, there's more! He has to kill Picard to live! You never get a chance to get a feel for the character, he end's up being just a really long winded plot device (and/or running gag.)

 

[Lance]

I think Tom Hardy's subsequent success in villainous roles has (in my experience, anyway) seen Shinzon being given a little more retroactive respect by casual viewers. I watched Nemesis with a girlfriend a while back, and her reaction to Shinzon was surprisingly positive.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

The thing I really love about Kruge is that he's a true "anti villain". He does some despicable things, but if you look at it from his point-of-view, then it seems he's just trying to discover what this super secret Project Genesis (which he assumes is some kind of a weapon) is all about.

I agree; his actions are deplorable from a human perspective but appear to be perfectly in keeping with Klingon traditions and customs.

--Sran

 

[Lance]

The thing I really love about Kruge is that he's a true "anti villain". He does some despicable things, but if you look at it from his point-of-view, then it seems he's just trying to discover what this super secret Project Genesis (which he assumes is some kind of a weapon) is all about.

I agree; his actions are deplorable from a human perspective but appear to be perfectly in keeping with Klingon traditions and customs.

--Sran

There's something very relatable with his position (based on a false assumption, admittedly) that the sworn enemies of the Empire might be developing some kind of a secret weapon. Especially given the movie was made at the height of the Cold War, when much of the problem was each side making assumptions about the other that may not have been true, but which only served to heighten tensions.

It's very easy to say that Kurge did all the wrong things for all the right reasons. His loyalty to the Empire is never in question.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

TMP - I liked how it wasn't a "Big Bad" they were facing, but something as simple as single line of code which was taken to the extreme.

TWOK - Khan is iconic, really nothing more could've been done with him.

TSFS - Kruge was always a bit 'meh' for me. Not sure how it'd be best to improve him.

TVH - Again something that isn't a "Big Bad". I like how nothing about the probe is explained, reminds us that the universe is mysterious and down right weird in places.

TFF - Sybok was a horrendous idea. Keep the hippy-dippy Vulcan (if you must) but remove all family connections to Spock and give him a more important cause to be going after. I'd also replace the Klingons with the Romulans.

TUC - I like how there are enemies all over the place, at every level and every camp. The threat of change hanging over everything that happens on screen.

GEN - Soran was a good villain, but they could've played up his desperation to get back the the Nexus and just why his life was so meaningless without his family--actually make him someone whose POV you could sympathise with a little more.

FC - It's the Borg. Nuff said.

INS - Looking at things more from Ru'afo's sidekick would've been nice, seeing the spiral of demented vengeance that Ru'afo had fallen into whilst the reality of what they were doing had the sidekick more torn--these are his people after all. Also giving more backstory to the 'evil admiral' to explain just why they were going along with such a nefarious plot.

NEM - If Shinzon is a clone, have him played by Sir Patrick, and drop the tedious nature/nurture debates they keep having. Do more with the Remans themselves--they're a slave race under the thumb of the Romulans that we've never even heard of!

 

[Disco]

Khan had the basis to be a good villain but he was not believable in TWOK. Missing Kirk's by the book 'code' to Spock when he was supposed to be super clever...epic fail in the writing.

 

[Ithekro]

It was probably due to Kahn not know who Lt. Saavik even was. Without that the code is less likely to be gotten.

 

[2takesfrakes]

V'ger, with its vast stores of knowledge spanning the totality of the known universe, should've not been so rigid in its quest to "join" its creator. It certainly views Humans as bottom feeders, until the NASA code signal schools it otherwise. Then, very last minute, it figures out a way to join with a Human, instead of a computer, as it intended to, all along. And joining with another Human wasn't even necessary, once it did learn the truth, because it had already sucked up dozens of them! Not to mention, there's Ilia there, the whole time, with her memory patterns. I don't know ... V'ger was a really cool idea and a fantastic visual, but for being a creature of Pure Logic, it didn't make a lot of sense, in the end. Some more thought invested into V'ger's motivations and how it might resolve itself would've benefitted THE MOTION PICTURE to the point where, if nothing else changed, this movie would've become a Critical Success. At least that ...

 

[Lance]

TVH - Again something that isn't a "Big Bad". I like how nothing about the probe is explained, reminds us that the universe is mysterious and down right weird in places.

Very much echoes the way TOS wasn't afraid to show us weird things like The Doomsday Machine as well. Shows us that not every space faring enemy has to be relatable (or even humanoid).

 

[Timo]

I sort of like all the TOS villains as they stand, sit or tapdance.

Certainly Rua'fo doesn't deserve to be sympathetic. The very idea is that Starfleet has mistaken him for a mere sleazebag when in fact he's Mengele disguising as a sleazebag. But I agree that his sympathetic sidekick could have been given a tad more airtime; it's just that too much exposure would ruin the final surprise in which we learn how villainous Rua'fo really is - the fact that they are relatives of the Ba'ku. The whole movie is about being in the dark about facts and making hasty decisions; exposure would backfire by default.

The Borg Queen is a bit silly, but the character is at least milked for her full worth there.

Shinzon is the big failure IMHO. He was created to replace Picard; he wants to be Picard, or at least his antithesis; why not let him be Picard? Have him be played by Stewart at least after some "maturation" of the clone, and then do some classic evil-twin-mistaken-for-real-deal stuff, only with a clever twist or two. At least that way the character wouldn't be completely wasted... The way things stand, he aims for nothing in particular, for no good reason, and doesn't get it anyway.

Heck, they knew this would be the last TNG movie. Have the inevitable epic struggle in the end take place between two Stewarts, and leave the conclusion unclear. Which of the men returned to command the E-E? He's clearly the Good Picard now, as evidenced by his selfless actions and whatnot, but is he the original one? And Does It Matter?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marsden]

Kruge gets a bad wrap from following Khan. I think Christopher Lloyd does a fantastic job in ST3, and the Kruge character is one of the highlights of the film.

I agree that Sybok and Soran were both ill served by the scripts, the actors in both cases I think do good to great work with what's there.

Ru'afo suffers greatly from being both written and played far too broadly. The OTT villian is part of the really awful tonal shifts that plague INS.

Shinzon is an interesting case. Tom Hardy certainly does his best with the material, although he comes across as smarmy more than menancing for most of the film. Overall the character suffers I think from one too many plot tics. Look, it's the new Reman praetor, but he's actually a human. But wait, he's really a clone of Picard! But WAIT, there's more! He has to kill Picard to live! You never get a chance to get a feel for the character, he end's up being just a really long winded plot device (and/or running gag.)

Good post!

For myself, I always thought Star Trek was best when there was no "villain" at all. I realize that doesn't carry over to movies as well as a tv show can handle it, that could be why I've always thought the movies didn't seem to always reflect what the show was trying to go for.

Having said that, in at least 3 of the 6 first generation movies, there really isn't a villian.

V'ger, Whale turd, and Sybok don't seem like they can be called villians.

Klaa is too small of a man to be "the" villain, and he just comes off as a misguided teenager to me.

The stupid god thing wasn't enough of a character to me to be a villian, but I would say that if there is a villian in STV, (besides the script) than it would be that, but it's more like a force than a character. It would be funny to pretend the disruptors changed his white cloudy appearance to black and tarry and he started calling himself Armus.

Khan didn't even seem like a villian in Space Seed, but he certainly turned into one by WoK, and the only reason I think he seems to be the best of them is Ricardo Montalban played him.

Chang is a good villian, but I think most of it is Christopher Plummer, he has a very sinster presence and can project the worst kind of creepiness, like some kind of devil, he's charming and gracious all the while plotting how most conviently he can kill you.

Unlike Chang, Kruge really doesn't seem like he's being a villian but even in his own words, an opponent. He doesn't want the Federation to have a planet destroying weapon and he's willing to sacrifice just about everything he has to prevent it. Hardly a villianous motivation.

The Borg don't have a face, so they hollywooded them up with a queen so they can have a face of evil, and just about ruined what made them so good in the first place, because even though they were without mercy and certainly killing off as many of our heroes as they could, they never seemed to be a villian but an opposing force whose philosophy couldn't allow any other culture to exist unassimilated. Then it turned into, you beat us and now it's personal.

Soren really was a villian, he was completely selfishly motivated and didn't care what he did other than to serve himself. Too bad he wasn't in a better movie.


Ruafo and Shinzon were just bad. I don't know what else to say for them.

 

[Franklin]

I agree with Marsden that Sybok wasn't a villain. He was an antagonist in the true definition of the term. His role in the story was to create the conflict that motivated our heroes. He had no evil motives or intent, wasn't particularly dangerous, and essentially redeemed himself for the error of his ways at the end of the movie. I just wish he hadn't been Spock's half-brother. That seemed unnecessary and awkward.

I also agree with EnriqueH that the Borg queen diminished what the Borg stood for, but I thought Alice Krige was great in the role and that helped alleviate things for me. She brought a certain eroticism to her character that made her seem alluring and tempting even though she was horrible and pure evil.

I thought Ru'afo was by far the weakest Trek movie villain. When you boil it down, he's simply obsessed with obtaining eternal youth to the point of becoming basically amoral in its singular pursuit. Vanity as a motive to be evil. To me, Dougherty was the real villain of the movie, forsaking all his Starfleet values to act in complicity with Ru'afo.

Soran was the most under-rated Trek villain, IMO. A brilliant man who can even be pitied for becoming broken and a bit psychotic trying to feed his addiction to the nexus.

 

[EnriqueH]

I also agree with EnriqueH that the Borg queen diminished what the Borg stood for, but I thought Alice Krige was great in the role and that helped alleviate things for me. She brought a certain eroticism to her character that made her seem alluring and tempting even though she was horrible and pure evil.

I think the Borg Queen would've been better as a "presence", something that you couldn't see or touch. I could practically see the Borg threat deflating as her head came down from above and into the headless body.

 

[Memory Alpha]

I'd scrap Shinzon altogether, the horrible cloning plot, the B4, and probably most of it. It's a catastrophe. I would have liked a legitimate change of power within the Romulan government that takes the Enterprise to Romulus and then a confrontation with whoever is leading the old guard, IF I were to keep the movie in the Romulan vein and to end on a positive note.

Sybok - His good intentions and disillusionment end up only half qualifying him as a villain, but I would have really played up the spiritualist nuttery of the character and I would have scrapped his "powers." This would make him more threatening and more real, but also, I think, more sympathetic in the end.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

The thing I really love about Kruge is that he's a true "anti villain". He does some despicable things, but if you look at it from his point-of-view, then it seems he's just trying to discover what this super secret Project Genesis (which he assumes is some kind of a weapon) is all about.

I agree 100%. Kruge isn't doing this stuff for personal gain or revenge. He truly believes this weapon could be a serious threat to the Klingon Empire and he's doing what he believes is needed to protect his people, even if his actions are brutal in doing so. Unlike some villians (I'm looking at you Klaa) who are just firing at the Enterprise for the hell of it. Yes he's brutal but also does have some honor (Kind of like Patton) like when he let Kirk have two minutes for him and his "gallant" crew instead of the one Kirk asked for.


And I also thing Kruge gets a bad rap and is very underrated and the reasons IMHO are simple. 1. He came right after Khan which is a tough act to follow and 2.Too many people have Christopher Lloyd burned into their brain as Doc Brown (A tribute to how well he played that role) and just can't see him as anyone else, especially a character that is the polar opposite of who Doc was. If Back to the Future had never been made I think he'd be looked on much more favorably than he is in some circles.

Personally I like his performance over Chang's. Kruge was serious, brutal and determined, but also thought what he was doing was noble. Chang was basically doing his acts because he didn't want a world without war and he was a prick with no real sense of decency. Plus I'm sorry his screaming Shakespeare during combat was just a little too much. They were obviously trying to parallel Khan and his Moby Dick quotes, but with Khan you believed those words were coming from his soul where Chang was doing it to be dramatic and a prick to his enemies.

 

[Franklin]

I also agree with EnriqueH that the Borg queen diminished what the Borg stood for, but I thought Alice Krige was great in the role and that helped alleviate things for me. She brought a certain eroticism to her character that made her seem alluring and tempting even though she was horrible and pure evil.

I think the Borg Queen would've been better as a "presence", something that you couldn't see or touch. I could practically see the Borg threat deflating as her head came down from above and into the headless body.

That would've been interesting. But I do wonder if the general audience would've been disappointed if there never was the payoff of having a face put to the presence. Don't know.

I do agree that having the queen deflated the Borg because it made her the singular target and what had to be defeated, and not them, any more. The uniqueness of the Borg threat was gone. Still like I said, I let it slip because I think only Montalban came acroes having more screen-chewing fun as Khan than Krige did milking her role as essentially playing a horror show vamp.