Implications of the fleet

[Gonzo]

A couple of industrial-grade replicators should take care of those problems.

I don't think it is something they could really just replicate their way out of though.

Replicators can do a lot but feeding 900 million is something else entirely, it will take a lot of time and effort to do that, plus a lot of goodwill from the current population and even then they will only be able to relocate so many to each planet.

Just imagine the toilet paper requirements.

 

[Timo]

It's not really all that technologically intensive. Take a couple of hardy families and drop them on the Great Plains, in the middle of untamed nature, with just a few basic iron tools and perhaps a bag of seeds. Even without modern medication, most of them will survive the year - after all, we know they did. With medication and a few bags of trivially cheap fertilizer, all of them will. Now drop a hundred billion of them on a planet that is all Great Plains, and the outcome does not change. Not unless the families decide to cluster up, and thus get killed by disease that even modern medicine can't control.

If it's too difficult to find a planet that is all Great Plains, go fish. It would be inconceivable for a Trek planet that has an oxygen atmosphere and sizeable bodies of water to lack fish, which is great survival food. And it's all edible and compatible in Trek. Again, key to survival would be restraint, the maintaining of healthy separation between fishing communities.

We might go gloom and doom about the old Romulans having searched for a new home and having found only Romulus in the neighborhood. But we also have the references to "Romulan offshoot", folks who went Romulan on Romulans and still found nice places to settle on.

In the end, it's no doubt a bit from the good basket, a bit from the bad basket. But survival of billions would really depend solely on getting them transported. And this would mean moving them across a gulf of a week at worst, allowing for basically endless repeat trips.

The actual problems would begin after these people have survived. How exactly will they ruin their planets and themselves, and when? We see a really mild case of survivalitis at Vashti. Matters might be worse elsewhere, without the Qowat Milat there telling people not to run with scissors.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ronald Held]

24th century people used to their tech are not going to survive using 18th century tools and methods.

 

[fireproof78]

People can adapt even if it takes time.

 

[Search4]

IIRC it was because the filming model had been damaged and couldn't be used to create digital assets

Sorry no. The Ent-C model was different than the Ambassador model.

 

[Dukhat]

Sorry no. The Ent-C model was different than the Ambassador model.

Huh? The Enterprise-C was an Ambassador class starship. The model used for the Enterprise-C was refurbished and used later to represent the other Ambassador class ships Zhukov, Yamaguchi and Excalibur. But it's definitely the same model.

 

[Go-Captain]

well, it would be easier to make the Rescue fleet to be able to disengage there "Cargo Area" an have any refuges live out of the cargo containers.. they have food, water, shelter, until the infrastructure and stuff get settled..

That's a fantastic idea, you made it easy to imagine the passenger sections not being at maximized density, and the TUG sections running in virtuous triangle from Earth, to Romulus, to outside the blast zone and repeat. Every time it repeats it picks up a new passenger section, so after a certain point Utopia Planetia just needs to keep up with the pace of returning TUGs.

The passenger sections can have a comfort level closer to non-ship bunking, as apposed to submarine density bunking. So instead of 90,000 people per pod it can be 10,000 which still leaves enough space for tight but private and comfortable quarters. I stayed in a room which is 9 m^2, and found it very comfortable, and it could probably be made even smaller or denser with a bunk. That would be a very luxurious evacuation ship, but does fit how luxurious Starfleet warships are, even the Defiant, as apposed to a modern sub.

 

[Timo]

FWIW, the ships that were supposed to save the Romulans were described as "ferries", with warp capacity. Tugs aren't easily described as ferries - but perhaps a tug that ferries containers back and forth would warrant the name. A container that never comes back isn't a likely "ferry", though.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Search4]

Huh? The Enterprise-C was an Ambassador class starship. The model used for the Enterprise-C was refurbished and used later to represent the other Ambassador class ships Zhukov, Yamaguchi and Excalibur. But it's definitely the same model.

It is not the same model as there was a second Ambassador made for those uses. There are material differences. I owned the C and can really really assure you it was not refurbished.

 

[valkyrie013]

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Wallenberg_class
Transports/tugs, and it seems they are "tugging" like a Ptolomey tug with the attached pods..
So the idea of them Leaving the pods for them to live in, power, replicator etc. is a sound one

 

[Dukhat]

It is not the same model as there was a second Ambassador made for those uses. There are material differences. I owned the C and can really really assure you it was not refurbished.

From Memory Alpha:

“The relatively radical redesign has actually led to some fan speculation that a second Ambassador-class model was built by Jein, but that notion was conclusively dispelled by several production staffers, who affirmed that Jein had indeed extensively modified the existing Enterprise-C model.”

I don’t know what you mean when you say that you “owned the C,” but either you’re wrong about there being two different models, or you have information that not even the Star Trek production staff has.

 

[JoseNoodles]

Also the saucer on the Ambassador may have been moved back in part because the neck extension above the impulse engine seems to have been damaged.

 

[Search4]

A few pictures of the C taken in my home circa 2016. This is long after the Christie’s auction of 2006 which said their model, the Ambassador model referenced above, was the “C”, incorrectly.


Note the size comparison with the Master Replica TOS model.

 

[Dukhat]

A few pictures of the C taken in my home circa 2016. This is long after the Christie’s auction of 2006 which said their model, the Ambassador model referenced above, was the “C”, incorrectly.


Note the size comparison with the Master Replica TOS model.

So based on these pics, I’m taking you at your word that you’re telling the truth. Thanks for posting these, as this is quite interesting information, and very different from what we were led to believe for many years. Do you mind if I ask you some questions?

1. Where did you purchase the model?

2. I assume you no longer have it. Did you sell it, and when?

3. If you sold it, is it public knowledge who you sold it to, or was it a private sale?

4. Was there a particular reason why you never mentioned that there were two different models before?

(I realize that I’m getting off topic here, so perhaps there should be a new thread about this in the TNG section...)

 

[Search4]

I'm not going to go into detail on personal matters which rules out 1, 2, 3.

Re 4, I've mentioned this every time I've seen the false attribution. In particular, and I may have the date wrong, Propstore sold the Ambassador model from the original buyer, I believe in 2015. Their original description indicated it was the "C", but I did speak with them and in they changed it to remove that fact. A beautiful model.

There are a few cases when the studio actually had more than one model built, even though you might think that would be unreasonable. Another is the Romulan Warbird, which was sold by Christie's in 2006. If you look at those pictures, the Warbird is colored light grey; if you look at other pictures the look of a Warbird is green. Did they repaint it?? In the real world there are two models, one green, one grey. The green one was publically on display at the EMP Star Trek exhibit (and if we ever get past the virus, will be at the Skirball in LA this year). Its owned by me. The grey one is - somewhere.

 

[Dukhat]

I'm not going to go into detail on personal matters which rules out 1, 2, 3.

Re 4, I've mentioned this every time I've seen the false attribution. In particular, and I may have the date wrong, Propstore sold the Ambassador model from the original buyer, I believe in 2015. Their original description indicated it was the "C", but I did speak with them and in they changed it to remove that fact. A beautiful model.

There are a few cases when the studio actually had more than one model built, even though you might think that would be unreasonable. Another is the Romulan Warbird, which was sold by Christie's in 2006. If you look at those pictures, the Warbird is colored light grey; if you look at other pictures the look of a Warbird is green. Did they repaint it?? In the real world there are two models, one green, one grey. The green one was publically on display at the EMP Star Trek exhibit (and if we ever get past the virus, will be at the Skirball in LA this year). Its owned by me. The grey one is - somewhere.

Yeah, I knew about the warbirds, although both were green in the show. If one was originally green and was painted over gray, that’s news to me. I’ll have to Google that.

*Edit* Although the model looks greenish-gray and not light gray as you said, it definitely looks like someone repainted it.

I get the model duplication. If the mold for, say, the Enterprise-C already exists, it’s easier and cheaper to just make multiple models of the same ship using that mold instead of creating a new mold for a different design (although Jein did reuse the Enterprise-C, Enterprise-D, and Stargazer molds to create parts for the Princeton and the Firebrand for BoBW.) I only wished he would have made a duplicate model of a more pristine Constellation class instead of reusing the Stargazer.

 

[Timo]

...Well, we do have a pristine Constellation now, apparently built specifically for "Remembrance" and thus bringing this back on-topic or close to it.

Fascinating information about the second Ambassador aka Yamaguchi never having been the E-C! The old photos at, say, Ex Astris Scientia showed surface damage to the E-C that looked more than skin deep, making me wonder back in the day how they got the surface all shiny again for the Yamaguchi appearance. These new photos suggest the "battle damage" really is just paint, rather than etching or scratching, though. Right?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

...Well, we do have a pristine Constellation now, apparently built specifically for "Remembrance" and thus bringing this back on-topic or close to it.

Unfortunately it’s just a desktop model and not a full size studio filming model. But it’s not like they’d use a filming model anymore anyway, since it’s all CGI now.

 

[DEWLine]

Desktop models are good enough for set decoration, so I'm good with that.

 

[JoseNoodles]

A few pictures of the C taken in my home circa 2016. This is long after the Christie’s auction of 2006 which said their model, the Ambassador model referenced above, was the “C”, incorrectly.


Note the size comparison with the Master Replica TOS model.

Do you have more pictures? I am still a little skeptical since your model does not have the damage on the neck extension seen on the Ex-Astris-Scientia photo I posted. Also the bussard collectors seem a little more conical (but the neck extension damage is where I have my strongest doubts).