I'm Not liking Where they are taking the Doctor

[Dave Scarpa]

Is it bothering anyone else how melevolent they are making the Doctor. Now Granted by this 11th version he has killed his entire race, something i have an issue with as well. But this whole fear of the Doctor from a Good Man goes to War, when he's calling in his "favors" I can't see Baker's Doctor doing any of this. But I guess time changes all men, just wish the newer Doctor had the values of the originals

 

[RoJoHen]

Well, the dude is hundreds of years old and has been through a lot (including, yes, the destruction of his entire race).

But part of the point of "A Good Man Goes to War" was the Doctor finally being confronted by this truth about his character. I have a feeling he will begin to work on changing things.

 

[Starkers]

What values of the original? In the begining the First Doctor was close to bludgening a caveman to death, the fourth Doctor on occasion treated humans as little more than pets or insects (check out his lack of empathy over the death of Scarman in Pyramids of Mars) the sixth doctor held a posioned rag over a man's mouth till he died, the seventh Doctor manipulated everyone around him, even his own companion, to defeat his enemies, as well as destrying Skaro.

None of this makes him a bad man, but he is a good man who does questionable things. I think the main difference is that nowdays he's called out about it more often (though Sarah Jane had his number)

 

[Peacemaker]

When you think about it, though, this is something that is entirely consistent with the classic series from the time of Trial of a Timelord. The Valeyard was the personification of the Doctor's dark side, lifted from sometime between his eleventh and twelfth regenerations. We're close that time period now, so it makes sense that his dark side would begin to surface.

 

[PorthosShadow]

When you think about it, though, this is something that is entirely consistent with the classic series from the time of Trial of a Timelord. The Valeyard was the personification of the Doctor's dark side, lifted from sometime between his eleventh and twelfth regenerations. We're close that time period now, so it makes sense that his dark side would begin to surface.

That also makes me wonder if The Dream Lord was more than just a little speck of psychic residue.

 

[RoJoHen]

When you think about it, though, this is something that is entirely consistent with the classic series from the time of Trial of a Timelord. The Valeyard was the personification of the Doctor's dark side, lifted from sometime between his eleventh and twelfth regenerations. We're close that time period now, so it makes sense that his dark side would begin to surface.

That also makes me wonder if The Dream Lord was more than just a little speck of psychic residue.

I hope so. As much as I liked that episode, I hated the end when we found out where the Dream Lord came from. It was very anticlimactic.

 

[PorthosShadow]

When you think about it, though, this is something that is entirely consistent with the classic series from the time of Trial of a Timelord. The Valeyard was the personification of the Doctor's dark side, lifted from sometime between his eleventh and twelfth regenerations. We're close that time period now, so it makes sense that his dark side would begin to surface.

That also makes me wonder if The Dream Lord was more than just a little speck of psychic residue.

I hope so. As much as I liked that episode, I hated the end when we found out where the Dream Lord came from. It was very anticlimactic.

The thing is, we see the reflection of The Dream Lord in the console and maybe it's just hope on my part but I think that meant something. Also, as River said "Rule number one, The Doctor lies"

 

[Professor Zoom]

Is it bothering anyone else how melevolent they are making the Doctor. Now Granted by this 11th version he has killed his entire race, something i have an issue with as well. But this whole fear of the Doctor from a Good Man goes to War, when he's calling in his "favors" I can't see Baker's Doctor doing any of this. But I guess time changes all men, just wish the newer Doctor had the values of the originals

What about McCoy's Doctor? Not only would be basically talk people to death, he would TORTURE (mentally) his COMPANIONS....to make them "better people" of course... what an A-HOLE.

 

[davejames]

Yeah he has a dark side, as he's always had, but I don't think I would ever characterize the Doctor as "malevolent."

Certainly not Smith's Doctor, who at heart seems to be one of the gentlest and kindest Doctor's there's ever been.

 

[Iamnotspock]

Is it bothering anyone else how melevolent they are making the Doctor. Now Granted by this 11th version he has killed his entire race, something i have an issue with as well. But this whole fear of the Doctor from a Good Man goes to War, when he's calling in his "favors" I can't see Baker's Doctor doing any of this. But I guess time changes all men, just wish the newer Doctor had the values of the originals

As others have said, it's far from an unbelievable progression, in fact I don't think it's much of a progression at all. The "values of the originals" have always been in flux and he's been guilty of unbelievable hypocrisy and hubris over the years. The first Doctor was introduced in 1963 as being aloof, condescending, cantankerous and having no qualms about bashing a caveman over the head to further his own ends. The seventh Doctor merrily plotted and manipulated people and events to further his own ends and destroyed Skaro altogether, and the eighth or ninth apparently played a significant part in the destruction of Gallifrey. The tenth's pride and fall was dealt with effectively in The Waters of Mars, and I can certainly see the sixth, ninth and tenth Doctors doing what the eleventh did in A Good Man...

I think the whole point is that we're seeing the Doctor being confronted with what recent experiences in particular have made him, hence River's "When you set off to see the stars, all those years ago, did you ever think you'd become this?" and the Doctor's horrified reaction when Madame Vastra points out that the people of the Gamma Forests consider a Time Lord to be a powerful weapon because "they've seen you."

From the Tachyon TV review of A Good Man Goes To War;

The Russell T Davies era of the show was incredibly successful but just as the Doctor's actions resulted in some unfortunate consequences, so some of the creative decisions made over the years have left Moffat painted into a corner. The Doctor has become such a famous figure in the fictional universe that he just has to turn up for the villains to run away, and Moffat himself was one of the biggest culprits in episodes like Forest of the Dead where the Vashta Nerada scarper as soon as they look him up. Moffat clearly recognises that this all-powerful Doctor has become a problem in dramatic terms and recently commented "...he can't keep doing that. It could be damaging for the show. So it's something that I'm bringing to a head, and kind of ending." A Good Man Goes to War is Moffat's attempt to move the show on, and his characteristic approach is to pack the story full of recognisable elements from the Davies era and then systematically dismantle them.

It would seem that Steven Moffat agrees with the OP, but he's addressing it and bringing it to a head rather than ignoring it. The only thing I don't quite understand is that RTD himself seemed to do much the same thing in The Waters of Mars and The End of Time, effectively giving Moffat a clean slate, so I'm not sure why he feels the need to cover a lot of the same ground.

My prediction is (spoilers just in case I'm right);

Spoiler: My theory

that the Doctor will eventually avoid his fate at the lake in Utah (obviously), but effectively fake his own death - so that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned the Time Lords are extinct - and go "underground", returning to his roots as a travelling adventurer rather than a mythical figure.

 

[Professor Zoom]

My prediction is (spoilers just in case I'm right);

Spoiler: My theory

that the Doctor will eventually avoid his fate at the lake in Utah (obviously), but effectively fake his own death - so that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned the Time Lords are extinct - and go "underground", returning to his roots as a travelling adventurer rather than a mythical figure.

I think you might be right. I had the same thought when I read it.

 

[PorthosShadow]

My prediction is (spoilers just in case I'm right);

Spoiler: My theory

that the Doctor will eventually avoid his fate at the lake in Utah (obviously), but effectively fake his own death - so that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned the Time Lords are extinct - and go "underground", returning to his roots as a travelling adventurer rather than a mythical figure.

I think you might be right. I had the same thought when I read it.

Or maybe the whole thing was a big set-up to begin with to achieve that goal. That would explain a few of the other rumors as well, maybe.

 

[Kelthaz]

My prediction is (spoilers just in case I'm right);

Spoiler: My theory

that the Doctor will eventually avoid his fate at the lake in Utah (obviously), but effectively fake his own death - so that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned the Time Lords are extinct - and go "underground", returning to his roots as a travelling adventurer rather than a mythical figure.

I hadn't thought about it, but I like it. That would be an excellent ending to the season.

 

[PorthosShadow]

My prediction is (spoilers just in case I'm right);

Spoiler: My theory

that the Doctor will eventually avoid his fate at the lake in Utah (obviously), but effectively fake his own death - so that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned the Time Lords are extinct - and go "underground", returning to his roots as a travelling adventurer rather than a mythical figure.

I hadn't thought about it, but I like it. That would be an excellent ending to the season.

And it would definitely make the next series even more interesting.

 

[Anachronus]

My prediction is (spoilers just in case I'm right);

Spoiler: My theory

that the Doctor will eventually avoid his fate at the lake in Utah (obviously), but effectively fake his own death - so that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned the Time Lords are extinct - and go "underground", returning to his roots as a travelling adventurer rather than a mythical figure.

I think you might be right. I had the same thought when I read it.

That is the best possible solution.

 

[mirandafave]

My prediction is (spoilers just in case I'm right);

Spoiler: My theory

that the Doctor will eventually avoid his fate at the lake in Utah (obviously), but effectively fake his own death - so that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned the Time Lords are extinct - and go "underground", returning to his roots as a travelling adventurer rather than a mythical figure.

I think you might be right. I had the same thought when I read it.

That is the best possible solution.

I've thought that all along and more so when I've read Moffet as indicating that the next series will be more about weird and wonderful travels and standalone episodes. To me it indicates that the Doctor will be involved in stories like before but as others have said even then he showed a darker side. At the end of the day, he is an alien, he doesn't have the same human values and has a completely different perspective on things. Which means he will act in what we might consider horrible ways to do what he considers right.

 

[theonering]

My prediction is (spoilers just in case I'm right);

Spoiler: My theory

that the Doctor will eventually avoid his fate at the lake in Utah (obviously), but effectively fake his own death - so that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned the Time Lords are extinct - and go "underground", returning to his roots as a travelling adventurer rather than a mythical figure.

I think you might be right. I had the same thought when I read it.

Or maybe the whole thing was a big set-up to begin with to achieve that goal. That would explain a few of the other rumors as well, maybe.

The same thing crossed my mind, but the problem with that is he has never exactly been very good at "blending in" so to speak... Say that he does do what you think he will, how do you keep saving the day from daleks and cybermen and whatnot without tipping somebody off that you're not actually dead? Or if you keep meddeling in historical events people will eventually notice that he keeps popping up. Remember how Amy read about him in the history book during the opening of "The Impossible Astronaut"?

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Yeah he has a dark side, as he's always had, but I don't think I would ever characterize the Doctor as "malevolent."

Certainly not Smith's Doctor, who at heart seems to be one of the gentlest and kindest Doctor's there's ever been.

Agreed. Smith's Doctor is certainly less prone to righeous fury, certainly when compared to Eccleston in "The End of the World," "Dalek," "Bad Wolf," & "The Parting of the Ways" or Tennant in "The Doctor's Daughter," "New Earth," & "Waters of Mars." Tennant, for all his goofiness, even had some surprising moments of cold blooded vengefulness, like "The Family of Blood" & "The Christmas Invasion." ("No second chances. I'm that kind of man.")

As was said before, I can just as easily see the 6th, 7th, 9th, & 10th Doctors doing the same thing the 11th Doctor did in "A Good Man Goes to War." In fact, I can pretty much see any of the Doctors doing that if pushed that far, although perhaps some of them would be far less inclined to involve anyone else in the rescue effort. (Of course, the 1st & 2nd Doctors were deliberately trying to keep a low profile. And the 4th Doctor was the biggest loner of any of them.)

 

[Professor Zoom]

Yeah he has a dark side, as he's always had, but I don't think I would ever characterize the Doctor as "malevolent."

Certainly not Smith's Doctor, who at heart seems to be one of the gentlest and kindest Doctor's there's ever been.

Agreed. Smith's Doctor is certainly less prone to righeous fury, certainly when compared to Eccleston in "The End of the World," "Dalek," "Bad Wolf," & "The Parting of the Ways" or Tennant in "The Doctor's Daughter," "New Earth," & "Waters of Mars." Tennant, for all his goofiness, even had some surprising moments of cold blooded vengefulness, like "The Family of Blood" & "The Christmas Invasion." ("No second chances. I'm that kind of man.")

As was said before, I can just as easily see the 6th, 7th, 9th, & 10th Doctors doing the same thing the 11th Doctor did in "A Good Man Goes to War." In fact, I can pretty much see any of the Doctors doing that if pushed that far, although perhaps some of them would be far less inclined to involve anyone else in the rescue effort. (Of course, the 1st & 2nd Doctors were deliberately trying to keep a low profile. And the 4th Doctor was the biggest loner of any of them.)

the 6th Doctor would've picked up a blaster himself. He wasn't no coward like the rest of them.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

My prediction is (spoilers just in case I'm right);

Spoiler: My theory

that the Doctor will eventually avoid his fate at the lake in Utah (obviously), but effectively fake his own death - so that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned the Time Lords are extinct - and go "underground", returning to his roots as a travelling adventurer rather than a mythical figure.

I really hope you're right about this.