I'm new, and I bring questions.

[Core]

I'm not a huge Trek fan, but I do love the Original Series, and have come to love TNG too. I grew up watching TOS reruns as a kid (I'm 30 now). I didn't get into TNG when it first aired, it wasn't aired consistently in Finland anyway, which is where I grew up. I resented Data's character for some reason...

But my wife grew up watching it and recommended it, so I gave it a shot. After buying the first season, I ended up enjoying it more each season. I found the 5th, 6th and 7th to be the strongest seasons, despite what Wil Wheaton may have said. I just watched the last episode, and I miss the show and its characters already.

So, I'm kind of glancing in the direction of the other shows: DS9, Voyager, and the less-heard-about Enterprise. I've seen a couple of episodes of Enterprise (I liked the "retro" sounds and technology), but beyond that I know nothing about these shows. Although I am sure the best and only way to really find out what I think of them is to give them a try myself, I have a few questions regarding them if I may.

1) Does DS9 - and Voyager - feel like a Star Trek show? I used to watch Babylon 5 on occasion, and that one Roddenberry show I could never really get into, with that square-jawed guy that looked like Scott Bakula, but I honestly didn't care much for either. I felt that B5 was like a sci-fi soap opera, and I really couldn't stand the lead character, and therefore didn't care about the goings-on around him. As for that other show...it just felt like it was all over the place. But both of these Star Trek shows have actually enjoyed really good writing, for the most part, engaging the viewer in some philosophical and ethical "dialogue". Do these other ST shows offer that same quality writing, and that familiar, abstract "Hey, it's Star Trek" feel?

2. Should these shows, DS9 and Voyager, be watched in a particular order, one before the other? Or does it not matter at all?

3. Please tell me there aren't any holodeck episodes.

I guess my concern regarding DS9 is that it isn't set on a ship, which means they're not going anywhere. This reminds me of Babylon 5 in some ways... It would always have these random aliens come aboard for trade or whatever and I was supposed to find them interesting, but it just lacked any kind of exploration and intrigue. I am really, really hoping that these two (or three) shows can fulfill my Star Trek fix for a while. While I wait for the movie.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Kegek]

1) Whether or not Deep Space Nine (DS9), Voyager (VOY) and/or Enterprise (ENT) 'feel' like Star Trek is subjective. The last, ENT, is the one with Scott Bakula. You might like DS9, but it appeals to the same people who like B5 - it's the most B5-esque of Star Trek shows. VOY is a bit like watered down TNG, and ENT is a bit like watered down VOY - until the third season, which is an uneven arc, and the fourth season is fan service.
2) DS9, VOY, and ENT have almost no interrelationship to each other. There are one or two plot points on DS9 which set up some on VOY, and some versions of VOY characters who cross over into DS9, that's about it. Two of ENT's characters are clearly derived from VOY characters, but that's something that won't help much, just bug you a bit. If you've watched TNG, you really have all the grounding you need to get any one of the shows, it is their strongest point of reference (except maybe ENT, which is also reliant on TOS).
3) ENT has no holodeck malfunction episodes. DS9 has only one, and it's actually good. VOY is replete with holodeck malfunction episodes, including ones that make the worst on TNG look good, though some are okay. Both DS9 and VOY have good holodeck obsession episodes - like TNG's "Hollow Pursuits" with Barclay.

In terms of calibre, I would consider DS9 the equal of TNG and TOS. Do you like those episodes on TNG that probe hard moral questions? Maybe "The Chain of Command", the one which features the Cardassians as antagonists? Because there are a lot of episodes like that on DS9, which features the Cardassians - and the Bajorans - more prominently than on TNG. It's space opera politics in the TNG world you know.

VOY and ENT, however, stick to formula. Often they stick to formula to the point it is nauseating, though both shows have their moments, and I for one consider the Doctor from VOY (he has no name, long story) a great character. My avatar is actually taken from VOY. They're worth a shot, if nothing else, especially as you like TNG and TNG is a major model for them, but by-and-large they're like TNG at its more mediocre moments (excepting, as said, ENT's final two seasons). In my opinion VOY is the better of the two, but I believe I am in the distinct minority here.

 

[An Officer]

^ You're not in a minority, I agree with you.

DS9 never felt like Star Trek to me although I gave it a lot chances. I think the most romantic, exciting/inspiring thing is that Star Trek is usually set on a TRAVELING starship. Stay away from DS9 or save it till last when you're desperate for anything that comes under the title of Trek. It has exactly the same qualities as those soap operas that you dislike.

You have a pretty safe bet with Voyager. Plenty of philosophy and ethics. For example, there was the episode that tackles suicide through the Q. Janeway deals with an on-board killer, and that was given a good story arc actually. Then there's species 8472 and whether the Borg should be allowed to annihilate them even though they are malevolent and a major threat to the universe.

Go for Voyager first, and come back and tell us what you found. :thumbsup:

 

[Luckyflux]

1--I believe they still feel like a Star Trek show. At least it is easy to get the 'Starfleet' feel when they are all in uniform. So that gives it the ST feel. I guess it comes down to cool space adventures, and well-written stories. And much like TNG, there are good ones and there are stinkers. DS9 had very good characters. You'll learn to like Garak, a very cool character indeed. Quark/Odo has a nice comic dynamic, without the punch lines. Dax and Sisko are great to watch when you consider the Trill mythos. I never liked Julian too much, but he turns in a great preformance. And Kira, while too butch for me, is a pretty cool foil to Sisko. DS9 had good villians too.

Voyager gets no love here, but I liked it. Sometimes Voyager had much better stories than DS9. As long as you don't pay too much attention to Janeway, some of their episodes are pretty good. Again Voy has some stinkers littered in the mix. Tuvok is consistently Vulcan (and cool). Chakotay is not bad, Harry and Tom are great, but Neelix I can live without. And Kes is hot with hair short or long. You and I are close in age, so I think Tom would appeal to you, especially if your wife has forehead ridges (mine has two webbed toes).

So overall, if you are getting into the Star Trek world and want more cool, space Sci-Fi definately pick them up and start watching.

2--I don't think the order matters. You might want to read a few episode summaries to find out which episodes are great and which can be avoided.

3--There are a few holodeck and holosuite episodes, but they aren't too bad. I never liked them too much either, but since it is ST and the characters I love, I gave them a shot.

My best advice is that if you like Science Fiction stories set in space, then you'll like the really great episodes. Read which episodes are the fan favorites, and check them out first. You'll probably like those episodes and want to check out more of the series.

 

[Tralis]

DS9 has a feeling of exploration because they made sure to include runabouts and later the Defiant so DS9 can go wherever the writers feel like taking it. It also has more consitent characters and when you see an episode and think "Damn, that was a good guest character!" often times you'll see that character again, if it makes sense for the plot and the character. DS9 also has a continuing and evolving plot line that grows better by the episode.
In comparison to B5 DS9 has much, much stronger and less stereotypical characters, both principal and guest. DS9 has, in my opinion, much better writing and dialog than B5.

VOY has some good episodes, but the writing in general was formulaic even according to much of the writing staff. Most characters never became as distinct as those on TNG, most relying on a few shtics. That's not to say you wouldn't like it, but TNG had a lot more going for it. Any time Voyager encounters something cool they have to leave it behind at the end of the episode. The Borg were turned from one cube being able to decimate a fleet to one cube being a pretty marginal force.

ENT season 1-2 play like Voyager with even duller characters. Season 3 is like a wattered down DS9 with much shittier characters. Season 4 is fun if you watch TOS enough becuase its a huge pool of TOS references.

 

[captcalhoun]

All three series retain the continuity and consistency of the star trek universe as depicted in TOS and TNG. to me, they are all trek. some fundaMENTALists on here would argue nothing made after TMP is trek though.

DS9 aired first, ENT is set the earliest. VGR is pretty stand-alone since it's set in the Delta Quadrant.

there are about four holodeck centric episodes on DS9, one is brilliant, two are good and one's mediocre. VGR has more, but a few are good.

 

[Velocity]

If you don't like holodeck episodes you better avoid Voyager at all costs because the holodeck episodes are gawd awful. Embarrassing!!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I'm one of those people who got into TOS when it was all there was to Star Trek, and for me, DS9 and TOS are by far the most "Trek" of Trek. DS9's not just the best Trek series, it's the best TV series of all time (not counting premium cable shows like Dexter but that's really an unfair comparison). So yeah, watch DS9 but go to the DS9 forum for specific advice on episodes because if you're easily bored, there's no reason for you to have to watch the bad episodes.

DS9 does go places - the action takes place both on DS9 and off. They're not chained to the station!

I didn't care for VOY or the first three seasons of ENT, but yeah, they're Star Trek too - just not nearly as good as they should have been. They were Trek enough to get me to watch.

Only DS9 and ENT's S3 and 4 need to be watched sequentially.

And I couldn't stand Bruce Boxleitner either (the B5 lead).

 

[Kegek]

Luckyflux said:
2--I don't think the order matters. You might want to read a few episode summaries to find out which episodes are great and which can be avoided.

Largely the case in VOY, yes, and in ENT's first two seasons. But later ENT and DS9 in general has a degree of serialization to it, you can skip the odd episode (multiple, early on in DS9) but works better generally to view it sequentially.

Tralis said:
In comparison to B5 DS9 has much, much stronger and less stereotypical characters, both principal and guest. DS9 has, in my opinion, much better writing and dialog than B5.

B5 has a handful of excellent regular characters but the recurring folk are a mixed bunch. All around, DS9 had a better main cast, and a better recurring cast. I can't say there were honestly any DS9 regulars I actively disliked. B5's Talia Winters, on the other hand...

Frosty the Vorta said:
DS9's not just the best Trek series, it's the best TV series of all time (not counting premium cable shows like Dexter but that's really an unfair comparison).

So, exempting all the really cool stuff on TV, it's the best TV show of all time? That's kind of faint praise...

 

[JD]

I'm a huge DS9 fan, so I would say start with it, then if you still want more Trek move on to Voy or Ent. For those two I would just say find the one which intersts you more and go for it. I liked the other two also, although my opinion of them differs depending on the season. The first few season of Voyager were a mixed bag IMO, and although it never got to the consistancy of DS9's quality it did get better as it went along IMO. Ent on the other hand was only ok, up until the third season when it switched over to one big season story arc (ala 24), and then season four which was the best season, (and was better then all of VOY IMO) was made of loosely connected two or three part storylines which really should be watched in order. Again this is all just IMO.

DS9 gets really serialized from Season 4 on, so from that point you really should watch them in order. The first three season are pretty much standalone, more or less so you should be able to pick and chose for those season if you want to. Voy was pretty much all stand alone (except for a few loose arcs which don't really need to be watched completely).

DS9 and Voyager did both have a hand full of holodeck eps, but IMO all of them were better then TNG's.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

DS9 from season 4 onward is fantastic, but I recommend watching the first three seasons as well, to get into the characters and some stuff is set up in those three seasons. DS9 differs a lot from the two shows you know, much time is spent on developing the characters, the show relies more on continuity and almost everything that happens in DS9 is revisited and has its consequences, part of the reason I like DS9 the best.

Voyager is a decent enough Trek series, I find it the weakest of the five shows, but it has a number of great episodes. It is the most like TNG in structure.

The first two seasons of Enterprise continue the trend of bland, non-risk taking stories that was started in Voyager. Late in the second season the show finally starts to get better, resulting in a quite well-done third season which employs a season-spanning arc to tell a big story that reaches a fantastic climax in the last six or so episodes. Season 4 has some excellent stories and is full of references to TOS, many of us feel this is what the show should have been doing from the beginning.

 

[mythme]

Since you enjoyed TNG, ask yourself if you really enjoyed episodes like "The Wounded", "Ensign Ro", "Chain of Command" and "Preemptive Strike". If YES then you have the foundation for the "feel" of DS9.

 

[indranee]

you should have put in a poll in this thread

my suggestion would be to go to each forum here and ask the folks for the best eps in each series to get introduced to the show with. (sorry, bad grammar but what the heck).

as far as I am concerned: I'm a Niner, but if you disliked B5 so much, I am not gonna recommend DS9 to you. if you loved TNG, you'll probably like VOY more than DS9 so I'd watch that one first (the recommended eps), and then do DS9 and ENT.

one thing: you'll hear a lot of people on here denigrate ENT's S1 and S2. but I do know people who like those seasons *post-fact*. even if they're not as tightly constructed as some later eps, if you completely give them a miss (that is, if you do watch ENT after all), you'll be missing some pretty cool eps, including the premiere, and others like Regeneration, Cold Front etc, as well as some of S2's latter half eps. I like ENT's S1 and S2, btw. But I like S3 best and find S4 mostly fanwank.

anyway, whatever you do -- enjoy yourself, and welcome to Trek!!