oh, that ally. good point. Still talking about the Federation though.
I'm liking the show so far but...
- Thread starter Two-Bit
- Start date
Like when Picard watched the atmosphere of a planet burn away, not lifting a finger to save the people who lived there (Homeward).
shortly after the syrian refugee crisis started and the first waves of refugees had arrived in the EU, most EU members sadly shifted their goal not to help those in need, but to how to close routes and borders as effectively as possible and how to keep the refugees far away.
Yes I know all that but also don't forget where the Defiant's cloaking device came from pre- war. Cold war enemy's is one thing but the Romulan Empire isn't one big army, they have civilians too. I just don't buy a Federation abandoning civilians like that regardless of TODAY'S political climate. The Trek lore has to be respected. I like the show, a lot. I just want it to make sense lol. Tell me the aliens from Conspiracy finally came back and have done a massive covert takeover of Federation leadership, just something more than "they're our oldest enemies" except for the times...
The wars with the Borg and the Dominion followed by the synth attack may have brought about a major cultural shift in the Federation.
the moment the UFP learned that changelings were on Earth they came very close to turn into militaristic dictatorship with a coup d'etat almost succeeding.
never underestimate the things that humanity is willing to do if they are just frightened enough
The cloaking device wasn't given freely, The Romulans were expecting intelligence on the Dominion in return. Don't forget that only a few months after supplying the cloaking device to the Federation, the Romulans attempted to destroy DS9 in an effort to close the wormhole permanently.
This isn't the first time that Federation has hesitated or outright refused to aide an enemy. When Praxis exploded Starfleets initial response was to consider using it to their advantage to 'bring the klingons to their knees'. Starfleet wanted Picard to commit genocide against the Borg. So the notion that the Federation willingly helps its enemies is inaccurate. They sometimes won't even help species that aren't enemies because of the prime directive.
In Fifty Years Mission, vol. 2, Ronald Moore tells the story of a story proposal from Hans Beimler and Rick Manning that Gene Roddenberry himself rejected. The story involved Picard's Enterprise encountering an active genocide and struggling with whether they would disobey the prime directive in order to stop it. Roddenberry's response? "Gene threw the story out and literally said that if the Enterprise came to planet where they were shoving Jews into ovens, the Enterprise would have to leave."
Would Gene Roddenberry's Federation abandon a people in need? There's your answer.
Would Gene Roddenberry's Federation abandon a people in need? There's your answer.
I can see that, I'd like it explained if so.
True. DS9 was such a good show.
The Federation is a massively complex and delicate body, containing an unbelievable amount of diverse, alien cultures all under one umbrella.
I think it's naive to assume we know enough about the political and cultural mechanics / priorities of such a unique organization. We only know what little we've seen and (mostly) heard through our extremely small and biased group of characters.
And when you heap onto that ignorance the fact that the Federation is basically a war-weary and depleted society by the time the supernova hits and Mars gets obliterated, it makes perfect sense that they are not functioning as a paragon of virtue. The Federation has gone through some brutal times in the late 24th Century.
Cardassian War
Wolf 359
Dominion War
Borg Battle at Sector 001 (First Contact)
Synth Revolt
It's no wonder they're taking their ball and going home. The amount of aggression they've endured and the loss of life has taken its toll.
I think it's extremely realistic and believable.
But...but Gene's vision!
Gene was more invested--literally--in maintaining his image as a visionary, someone who knew what the shape of humanity's future was. The proposed story put the values he promoted on trial.
Let me say that what has made Star Trek powerful to me is not Gene Roddenberry, but the many people who used Star Trek as a platform to explore how we get to a better future and understand the stumbling blocks in our way.
This post you just made is almost literally the entire theme of DS9
That was not Starfleet's inital response it was Cartwright's who was one of the bad guys. When Kirk had his "let them die" moment he instantly regretted it as well. Trek was always a story of an idealized version of humanity that had evolved and become better than we are today. That's what I loved about it in the first place, that one day in the future we would get over skin color, religion, demographics, all that bullshit that divides and become one. If the new message is that we're pulling the same things in the 24th century that we are today then what's the point? This is still Star Trek. I'm kind of surprised that I seem to be alone on this and no one else is raising an eyebrow to how uncharacteristic this one element of the show is. I guess it's just a sign of the times. Anyway off that point I'd also like to know if Bajor ever did become a member planet. Hopefully there is a throwaway line or easter egg that answers this.
I know, right? as if PIC somehow follows in the footsteps of other Trek shows with their depiction of the Federation and Starfleet
I've never heard this story before. That's pretty wild. I need to find this vol 2 and read it to get the full context. But once again that is a prime directive issue that no one ever seemed to mind breaking lol.
I don't think you're alone on the point. But, I DO think that Star Trek at its best was not about an idealized Humanity. It was about an extremely flawed humanity who just happened to learn how to not be completely self-destructive. That's still a pretty damn positive message.
And to me, the journey is far more interesting than a destination that is pre-packaged for us. Who cares about a place when everyone does the "right thing" as a given all the time? A show about how wonderful the Federation is and how they do things the "right way" all the time simply isn't interesting, dramatic, or realistic. A show about people TRYING to do the right thing, but screwing up and then needing to fix it.....that's much better.
And frankly, Star Trek is a better show when it takes that approach. It was really quite cheesy and simplistic at times when it was just a bunch of moralizing by Captains with an ethical superiority complex.
