I'm building the entire Starship Enterprise interior at 1:25 scale

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Mike Nevitt, Mar 5, 2023.

  1. drt

    drt Commodore Commodore

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    I think you could argue that she needs her own cabin since doing the captain's business warrants more secrecy than the yeoman who has to coordinate the ship's toilet paper requisitions.

    I think Jefferies' cross section is nebulous enough you don't get much idea of the ship's internal structures.
     
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  2. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But you get the notion that it's lots of floors like an office building.
     
  3. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think I get where drt is coming from.

    While comparing FJ and MJ's cross sections I can see that FJ's deck layout has all the decks are uniform in ceiling height and even flooring except for the flight deck.
    MJ has varied deck heights and even some decks are slightly above or below the deck connecting to it.
     
  4. PCz911

    PCz911 Captain Captain

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    Is there historical explanation from MJ as to why he had such variances?
     
  5. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think there's any documentation on that, but it's possible he was just making a fudge factor because it's possible to come up with 11 decks in the saucer if you count each disjointed deck as a separate deck/level. This way MJ compromised between the original 8 deck saucer he wanted, and the 11 deck saucer called for in the 3rd rev of the writers guide, and also accounts for a lot of the throwaway lines from the various episodes.
    And before anybody calls me out on it, yes the cross section predates the 3rd rev of the WG, but the 11 deck saucer seems to have been in the minds of Fontana and the writing staff at least as early as "Errand of Mercy" and "City On The Edge Of Forever" and probably earlier than that, so MJ's cross section and the notion of an 11 deck saucer could be more or less contemporaneous.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2023
  6. BK613

    BK613 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  7. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Shame FJ couldn't image an engine room in the secondary hull, which I believe was Jefferies intent. I think Mr Trek also doesn't see the need for an engine room in the secondary hull, either. :weep:
     
  8. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    FJ did put an engine room in the secondary hull. You should check out his Blueprints package some time. :)
     
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  9. Macintosh

    Macintosh Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Are you sure? Because I've got two editions of FJ's published blueprints and they each have main engineering at the back of the saucer.

    EDIT: there are scanned versions at the Star Trek Blueprints website here.
     
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  10. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Same answer as BK613 as I think MJ put function over form even on the internals. Here is a quick comparison of the two cross sections for your reference.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm very sure. I'm looking at it. :cool: You saw the engine room on Deck 7, and there is also the Warp Drive Engineering Section on Deck 16.

    You have a point if you want the set on Desilu Stage 9 to be in the secondary hull. FJ put that room in the saucer. Not everybody likes that, but to me it really fits.
     
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  12. Macintosh

    Macintosh Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The idea FJ was working on, per MJ's original concept, was that the warp nacelles were self-contained power/engine units, and the ship drew power from the nacelles rather than pushed power to them. The "warp drive engineering" consists of two energy converters (to take energy from the nacelles and convert it to a form the other ship systems can use) and not much else, though it's probably based on this room from the TAS episode "Beyond the Farthest Star" – the design of the converters on FJ's blueprints match this hatch structure. There's also two next to the impulse engines in the saucer, presumably to show that the ship can draw power from the impulse engines.

    [​IMG]

    My point was that Main Engineering is not in the secondary hull in FJ's blueprints. They just label that room as "engineering section".

    I never liked the idea that the forced perspective pipe cathedral was not really forced perspective at all but instead was a conical part of the impulse engines :shrug:
     
  13. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Good explanation for that warp drive scheme. :techman: TAS dialog has that hatch structure as the hatch to the "engineering core". Not much of a "core" seen in the FJ plans...again, no "proper" looking engine room in the secondary hull; at least he put one engineering section in the "engineering hull" and not just swimming pools and bowling alleys. :vulcan:
     
  14. drt

    drt Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, sorry I didn’t maybe word my thoughts very well. MJ’s cutaway shows more variation in deck and compartment sizes and at least implies some large machinery.

    I’ll always have a soft spot for the FJ floor plans as my first exposure to Treknokogy, but now that I’m older I find his layout, particularly of the secondary hull, to have some strange choices. A big part of that was probably the idea that every crewman rated at least at least a double occupancy room, which requires jamming a bunch of quarters and recreational spaces into the secondary hull. It also occurs to me another issue I have with FJ is an overly extensive turbolift network. Our crew is supposed to be in good shape, there’s really no need for a turbolift alcove every fifty feet.
     
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  15. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Good point. I'll add that to the list of FJ things I would change. I'd want:
    • Fewer turbolift stations, and greatly reduce their horizontal travel. Horizontal tubes block off the decks. Crew can walk.

    • Remove the bowling alley and its ceiling. Let that be a double-height workshop under the Hangar Deck.

    • No swimming pool. Let that be a double-height machinery room under the secondary bridge.

    • Add the Emergency Manual Monitor on Deck 6, Engineering section.

    • The secondary hull needs a set of tanks for emergency gasses, like the one on Deck 5.

    Looking beyond just FJ, I might be tempted to make the ship bigger, to increase ceiling heights, and also to face the bridge forward (enclose the interior elevator within the exterior bridge housing). And I'd get rid of the saucer undercut, so you have more vertical space on Deck 7.
     
  16. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    One nice alternate take on the Enterprise was the early curved bridge design that would fit the fanship Metaluna.

    Instead of decks, most of the saucer could be hollow...walking up an extended Klaatu type ramp from the engineering pit secondary hull...more open and clean as you ascend.
     
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  17. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don’t understand the desire to make the outer portion of deck 7 accessible. When I see a feature like that undercut, I try to figure out why it could be there. One obvious reason is to isolate a part of deck 7. You have the central part, easily accessible from the rest of the ship. And you have the outer ring, where all manner of things might go on- machinery, storage, brig, morgue, recyclers, etc. The stuff the robots tend. :D

    You don’t want it accessible. Believe me. Bad stuff goes on on Deck 7X. *shudders*
     
  18. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Same here - I'd rather "discover" the reason for unusual design features like this, instead of trying to awkwardly cram in living spaces around it
     
  19. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd be for that as an idea. Totally. But there are those pesky windows. (Yes, they could be hoobity-flop re-calibration widgets, but I think the clear intention for the audience was that they are windows.)

    OTOH, I picture the two-deck sections of the outer rim (some of it, anyway) as a great place to put large spaces that take up both decks. I see relatively grand recreation / social spaces (that would not be occupied during combat / danger situations) placed on those quadrants with windows.

    Barring that it would at least make sense for the "cut off" parts of deck 7 to not be every-day use or at least not people-used stuff. Pretty much like you said.

    Someone upthread said something that sparked my feeble imagination: What if we put the ship together by first determining what are the things the ship NEEDS (engines / life support) then adding the things it DOES (sciencey things, shuttle craft, weaponry, transporters) and then finally adding where the PEOPLE go (starting with essentials and then working down to rec decks) probably squeezed in around the essential stuff.

    Other than carting around 430 people it would be nice to see WHY the Enterprise is the size it is.
     
  20. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Nobody goes down there, anymore <says with fear.> :rofl:

    I have interest at putting MJ features from his cross-section into the FJ deck plan (or any deck plan):
    MJ has some sort of 2 level "electrical room" under of the impulse engines which extends into the dorsal neck. I envision this engineering section as the power convertor of the impulse engines for general ship power or maybe just for powering the secondary hull when warp power is down. It may work both ways, i.e. powering the impulse engines with warp power from the secondary hull (same-ish location of the impulse defection crystal from the TMP-E?).
    [​IMG]