I'm building the entire Starship Enterprise interior at 1:25 scale

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Mike Nevitt, Mar 5, 2023.

  1. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Also there is a certain amount of looking back at 1975 as if people then had the knowledge of 2023. Franz Joseph worked with Roddenberry and Jefferies on designs for Genesis II. He had the opportunity for input. Whatever their later opinions - probably colored by seeing him as a garage entrepreneur they gave free rein who later hit the jackpot much to their dismay - they were originally fine with what he was doing. So that approach of altering exterior and interior to make it all fit didn’t seem to bother the people who, you know, actually made the show. At least until much time and many dollars later. And I don’t know what anybody else thought but I was never ever bothered by getting plans for ships we’d never seen. I thought I’d hit the proverbial jackpot - as if I was seeing material from unseen episodes of the series. And in a way, we were.
     
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  2. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Altering the exterior to make it all fit doesn’t wash when everything can indeed fit within the exterior as designed.

    Sorry, but that stubbornly doesn’t wash.
     
  3. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When I look at FJ's Inboard Profile, I think he can run cables through the walls and floors. That gives control access and power to the dish.

    As to what I said before about the mounting pole containing mechanism, I wasn't even counting the ring structure behind the dish! Now I see there's a lot of room for mechanism. So on this particular question, locating the dish's infrastructure, I'm on Team FJ.
     
  4. PCz911

    PCz911 Captain Captain

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    FJ’s work was ground breaking and monumentally influential.

    jump in “the way back” machine to the early 1970s. What did he really have to work with/from? Film clips? A “making of” book? Probably not even the set blueprints or interviews with the art dept. And think about the inconsistency between the various screen used models and how that probably confused the situation even more, not to mention the ever changing physical sets. Then add in the 70s technology (pen and paper, no cad or computer modeling), maybe a few remembered references from the show (eg bowling alley), the probable apathy of Roddenberry (I’d guess something like “oh sure, that’s fine. Give me a cut of the profits and let’s publish it)”….could anyone of us have done better? I doubt it.

    now we all have high def blue Ray and study frame by frame. We see the paint streaks and the wood grain. So easy to forget… fj set the standard. I’m always surprised to see the angst surrounding his blueprints and tech manual.

    I love all the new stuff, the computer generated images. I so admire the skill and the passion of the folks who sweat the details. But there will always be massive respect for what fj did with pen and paper. Heck, the sr-71 was designed by a bunch of guys with slide rulers. I work with a veteran of skunk works from that era. The tales he tells (and the Rolex they gave him upon his retirement, you don’t see THAT anymore).
     
  5. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It certainly does wash if you accept that his ship is a different ship, which he tells you it is. I will reiterate however my earlier question - why has nobody taken the sets and the Jefferies cutaway and made it work deck by deck within the 11-foot shell? I did as far as doing a cutaway but my time got in the way before I could get very far on deck plans. But damn, it makes no sense in this canon sodden world that the canon of TOS does not rear its head in opposition to all the Disco and SNW heresy. I just think the task of getting in Jefferies’ head to do his work justice is too daunting for most of the people capable of doing it.
     
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  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    It advertises with a picture of the TOS Enterprise on the cover and proclaims: “The Complete Set of 12 Authentic Blueprints of the Fabulous Starship Enterprise.”

    And yet it doesn’t give you that—period! It gives you something else. It doesn’t give you the ship you saw on television as the cover of the set proclaims. It doesn’t gel with the numerous stills of the ship that were available even at that time.
     
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  7. Takeru

    Takeru Space Police Commodore

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    Yeah but so what? TOS itself wasn't consistent either in how the ship was portrayed. Not even the movies cared that much, The Final Frontier gave the Enterprise 78 decks with the higher numbers on top and that's not even a small oversight, that's not even trying. So I think blueprints made in between shows when the franchise wasn't even a franchise yet can be excused for not being accurate to what fans have come to accept as the true ship.
     
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  8. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, for fucks sake! Forget it. I made my goddamn point. The blueprints were misleadingly advertised/promoted as being one thing and giving you something else. I don’t care who’s idea it was—Roddenberry, Joseph, Paramount, Ballantine, whoever—it misled the buyer.

    I enjoyed them for what they were and acknowledge FJ’s contribution and what he started, but I’m not going to venerate him and kiss his ass because what he created was not what it was put across as.
     
  9. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My theory: There had been 79 episodes of The Original Series, but Kirk was not in the first one. So that left "78 stories" of the TV show that Kirk was in. Thus he made the ST5 Enterprise a 78-story ship. It was a tribute to TOS, Kirk-centric as all get out.
     
  10. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    I think at the time, they mentioned the figure-eight corridor design was specifically designed to address the problem of running out of space for walk-and-talks on the TOS/TMP/TNG/VGR layout, requiring them to shoot such scenes in chunks instead of being able film them continuously on one big set-up. The Battlestar Galactica remake did the same thing, while Stargate's ship sets just made their corridor a fairly small oval.
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I hate "authentic " as an advertising teem.
     
  12. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think there was a deliberate attempt to mislead people with the advertising blurb, I think TPTB simply underestimated the pickiness of fans. To the average Joe the blueprints would look like the ship onscreen, only the hard core fans would spot the discrepancies here and there.
    I do agree that marketing the plans as being of the Enterprise, rather than another ship typical of the class, has led to much confusion over the years and created a lot of unnecessary animosity towards FJ's work.
    Also, as pointed out above, there was no consistency in the sets and ships throughout the series, even to the point of using four different miniatures -which all looked noticeably different- to represent the Enterprise, so I don't fault FJ for trying to compromise and smooth it all together into one coherent whole.
     
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  13. Henoch

    Henoch Glowing Globe Premium Member

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    For my "screen accurate" TOS Enterprise(s), I've partially drafted deck plans for a 947 foot ship and an enlarged 1267 foot ship (mostly to fit the Hangar (per Datin's scale/dimensions) that also gives the bonus effect to fit the Bridge forward and more room for the as-built sets.) I always get bogged down in the conflicting details, hence, my "partially drafted" deck plans and endless revisions...:shrug: Stack on top of it my poor drafting/creative skills doesn't help. :weep:
     
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  14. PCz911

    PCz911 Captain Captain

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    I agree with your post. I’m Highlighting This one quote because, until this thread, I didn’t realize how much animosity there was to his work.

    I guess I’m saddened. Part of the fun of the fandom is seeing how everyone tries to resolve all the ship inconsistencies. To highlight the first person who tried to resolve these issues with such negative energy really bums me out. The reality is there will have to be different interpretations and compromises made in ANY attempt to rationalize the inconsistent art direction from back in the 60s. For the shows art team, it was “close enough”. That’s why I love seeing everyone’s different solution. Some are amazingly clever.

    The bloke making this model has said that his version is one at a slightly later time period, relying on some of the animated show ( TAS ) iterations (eg a second bridge access point).

    I enjoy them all and am happy to make suggestions but don’t have the skill to do what any of the fans do with creating their own “ship” study.
     
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  15. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I feel for ya! :techman:
     
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  16. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't recall reading that myself, and if the figure-8 design was intended to be used that way it certainly wasn't often!
    However, I do remember a similar quote in the context of the partial redesign of TNG's corridors when VOY was being prepared. I think the VOY sets still hold the record for the longest continuous stretch of corridor to this day (plus they had an actual engine room and not a redressed corridor junction!)
    [​IMG]

    I too am part of that hallowed fellowship! One day, one day.... ;)
     
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  17. Takeru

    Takeru Space Police Commodore

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    It wasn't what you wanted it to be but the blueprints not matching your preferences does not mean they were misleading you by calling them authentic.
     
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  18. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    *Sigh* You call something “authentic” when it’s no such thing. Sounds damned misleading by any definition.
     
  19. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There is a difference between what Franz Joseph produced and what Ballantine marketed. Franz Joseph went so far as to insist the Ballantine marketing card on the cover of the Tech Manual be removable to reveal his “real” cover because of what he saw them do with his Booklet of General Plans. He made no claims the ship he drew was Enterprise. He labeled it as Constitution. Anybody who knows anything about naval architecture knows ships within a class can vary widely. Nimitz is different from Vinson is different from Lincoln is different from Roosevelt. Titanic was different from Olympic and Britannic. And as we saw, Constellation - the AMT model - was as different from the 11-foot Enterprise model as that model was from what Franz Joseph drew.

    There is no controversy here, only misplaced expectations.
     
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  20. Macintosh

    Macintosh Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We even see this in Star Trek. The Odyssey bridge is different from the Enterprise-D's despite them both being Galaxy-class. The Enterprise-A warp core, engine room, transporters, and corridors are different from the refit Enterprise's, despite them both being Constitution II-class. Let's not get started on all the Miranda-class variants...
     
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