If you could rewrite Voyager

[catshadowsi8]

The "Always on the movie" thing also limited the development of the surroundings as well. The whole series should've taken place in the same general area. Like how despite Farscape being about Crichton wanting to go home they never left the area of space the Peacekeepers and Scarrans lived in. The Viddians, Kazon, Krenim, Hirogen, etc all exist in the same area of space instead of a "One at a time" method.

I actually like the moving through space scenario but I don't understand why it had to remain a 99.9% alpha quadrant crew. Living Witness had many things going for it but imo the idea that Voyager had delta quadrant races on board was one of the best. And the sad thing is they had opportunities to do this.

Initiation immediately comes to mind. Why couldn't the Kazon boy, faced with death because he failed, join the crew. 7 became Janeway's pet project yet the bond forged between Chakotay and Kar was stronger imo. There are many other examples as well. Mixing the crew with delta quadrant species also creates complicated relationship on board. You don't have to constantly look for external problems to solve when they are living in the room next to you.

 

[Catarina]

I actually like the moving through space scenario but I don't understand why it had to remain a 99.9% alpha quadrant crew. Living Witness had many things going for it but imo the idea that Voyager had delta quadrant races on board was one of the best. And the sad thing is they had opportunities to do this.

Initiation immediately comes to mind. Why couldn't the Kazon boy, faced with death because he failed, join the crew. 7 became Janeway's pet project yet the bond forged between Chakotay and Kar was stronger imo. There are many other examples as well. Mixing the crew with delta quadrant species also creates complicated relationship on board. You don't have to constantly look for external problems to solve when they are living in the room next to you.

Same reason they dumped Hogan and Durst. The cheap skates wouldn't pay for more people.

 

[fireproof78]

The "Always on the movie" thing also limited the development of the surroundings as well. The whole series should've taken place in the same general area. Like how despite Farscape being about Crichton wanting to go home they never left the area of space the Peacekeepers and Scarrans lived in. The Viddians, Kazon, Krenim, Hirogen, etc all exist in the same area of space instead of a "One at a time" method.

Um, Crichton discovered new aliens a lot. And revisisted them as well in very creative ways.

He also went back to Earth a couple of times too.

Not exactly a fair comparison.

 

[catshadowsi8]

Same reason they dumped hogan and durst: cheap skates wouldn't pay for more people.

Sigh...you make a very good point.

 

[Anwar]

I actually like the moving through space scenario but I don't understand why it had to remain a 99.9% alpha quadrant crew. Living Witness had many things going for it but imo the idea that Voyager had delta quadrant races on board was one of the best. And the sad thing is they had opportunities to do this.

Initiation immediately comes to mind. Why couldn't the Kazon boy, faced with death because he failed, join the crew. 7 became Janeway's pet project yet the bond forged between Chakotay and Kar was stronger imo. There are many other examples as well. Mixing the crew with delta quadrant species also creates complicated relationship on board. You don't have to constantly look for external problems to solve when they are living in the room next to you.

One idea I had would've been for the Caretaker to be holding other Alpha Quadrant species and some other Delta Quadrant aliens on his Array or in the Ocampa city and they all escape when it blows. Their ships are either destroyed or are small scout vessels that would never survive the voyage alone so they have to all use Voyager as a carrier/mothership and live on it together.

So we'd have Feds along with Romulans, Klingons Cardassians and any other DQ aliens too. A powder keg waiting to go off.

Um, Crichton discovered new aliens a lot. And revisisted them as well in very creative ways.

Because he never went outside the general area, so it was possible to meet up with the same people again and again.

How isn't it fair to ask Voyager to fly around the same area for the run of the series?

 

[fireproof78]

How isn't it fair to ask Voyager to fly around the same area for the run of the series?

I said it wasn't a fair comparison. I didn't say it wasn't fair to ask Voyager to stay in the same area.

 

[catshadowsi8]

One idea I had would've been for the Caretaker to be holding other Alpha Quadrant species and some other Delta Quadrant aliens on his Array or in the Ocampa city and they all escape when it blows. Their ships are either destroyed or are small scout vessels that would never survive the voyage alone so they have to all use Voyager as a carrier/mothership and live on it .

I said somewhere (heck if i know where) I would have liked it if we had kept the Val Jean instead of destroying it. Two captains, two ships, great possibilities both in space battles and support for each other, not to mention character development. Imagine if Chakotay was not forced to be Janeway's subordinate. They have very different ideologies. But it was the 90's and the first female captain. Still the possibilities....

 

[CommanderTrip]

I thought the same thing. I wouldn't be interested in. He is who he is.

True. A different spin on this concept would be the ship or some crew members in a shuttle encounter some kind of anomaly which converts them to holograms. Some kind of accident perhaps, like "Our Man Bashir". It's a concept that definitely would require a great writer to pull off and make it work. But the potential is there for an interesting tale.

 

[Anwar]

I said somewhere (heck if i know where) I would have liked it if we had kept the Val Jean instead of destroying it.

I wouldn't have really bothered using the Maquis at all, they really aren't different enough from the Fleeters to be a source of proper conflict. I mean, their enemies were the Cardassians and not the Federation (especially since by Voyagers' start they'd barely been around 1 year) and their big point of contention with the Feds is a political dispute now 75 years away.

You can't get 1 seasons' worth of conflict from that, let alone 7.

Using other AQ species who DID hate each other and had histories of enmity behind them works better. Feds and Romulans, Romulans and Klingons, etc.

I said it wasn't a fair comparison. I didn't say it wasn't fair to ask Voyager to stay in the same area.

Then fine, you're okay with Voyager staying in the same general area for years so they can flesh it out properly.

 

[fireproof78]

I wouldn't have really bothered using the Maquis at all, they really aren't different enough from the Fleeters to be a source of proper conflict. I mean, their enemies were the Cardassians and not the Federation (especially since by Voyagers' start they'd barely been around 1 year) and their big point of contention with the Feds is a political dispute now 75 years away.

You can't get 1 seasons' worth of conflict from that, let alone 7.

Guess what? I don't want 7 seasons worth of conflict. But one is fine by me.

Then fine, you're okay with Voyager staying in the same general area for years so they can flesh it out properly.

Was not aware this was a source of contention

 

[catshadowsi8]

I wouldn't have really bothered using the Maquis at all, they really aren't different enough from the Fleeters to be a source of proper conflict. I mean, their enemies were the Cardassians and not the Federation (especially since by Voyagers' start they'd barely been around 1 year) and their big point of contention with the Feds is a political dispute now 75 years away..

Im sorry Anwar but I can't agree. The Maquis have a huge issue with Starfleet/The Federation. They were betrayed by them. Their families and friends died because the rules and the peace treaties were more important to the Federation and Starfleet than they were.

B'Elanna displays this numerous times in the first season. She practically spits the word Starfleet out like it leaves a bad taste in her mouth. In Parallax the Maquis approach Chakotay about a mutiny. In Learning Curve the recruits talk about their dislike serving on a Starfleet vessel. 'We're just not going to jump through any Starfleet hoops.' In Maneuvers, Chakotay goes rogue. Seska says 'I thought all these months answering to Janeway would have made you soft, but all you needed was a little slap in the face to get that Maquis heart of yours beating again.'

Janeway is appalled at Chakotay's actions because Starfleet is all about the rules. You must obey them and the protocols. The Maquis, not so much. They obey Chakotay out of respect, not because of the rules. If he had not towed the line for their sakes, the Maquis likely never would have and if he had kept his captaincy and the Val Jean....I guess we will never know.

 

[Anwar]

Im sorry Anwar but I can't agree. The Maquis have a huge issue with Starfleet/The Federation. They were betrayed by them. Their families and friends died because the rules and the peace treaties were more important to the Federation and Starfleet than they were.

But eventually they're going to have to learn to work together, I mean Hell their big problem with the Federation was that they chose to "sell out the little guy" instead of putting themselves in harms' way. What did Janeway do with the Array? She chose the Ocampa (the little guy) and made a sacrifice. She did what the Maquis wanted the Federation to do in the first place!

Having there be other Alpha Quadrant races that were all much older enemies like the Romulans and Klingons onboard would've at least explained where conflict would come from after season 1.

Of course, the bigger issue is that the show needs a bigger plot than "Lost Ship going home" because that's not sustainable either.

 

[catshadowsi8]

But eventually they're going to have to learn to work together, I mean Hell their big problem with the Federation was that they chose to "sell out the little guy" instead of putting themselves in harms' way. What did Janeway do with the Array? She chose the Ocampa (the little guy) and made a sacrifice. She did what the Maquis wanted the Federation to do in the first place!

Having there be other Alpha Quadrant races that were all much older enemies like the Romulans and Klingons onboard would've at least explained where conflict would come from after season 1.

Of course, the bigger issue is that the show needs a bigger plot than "Lost Ship going home" because that's not sustainable either.

I agree. I don't think the Maquis/Starfleet tensions could last forever and honestly I think the Maquis are too adaptable and pragmatic to let that happen. Alliances spells it out perfectly. Chakotay says Maquis make allies were they can even if it's not ideal. That is exactly what Chakotay did in Caretaker. He made a deal with the devil so to speak to protect his crew. Then he fought hard to grandfather them into the system so they would not become targets.

Still there are huge ideological differences here. Like I said they rear up in Scorpion. More of this would make sense imo.

As for the 'lost in space' scenario I'm not sure. Great writing could work I think. There is a reboot of the original Lost in Space coming to Netflix. I'm interested to see how it turns out now that we are not in the 90's. I'll let you know in 7 years. Lol

 

[Anwar]

I agree. I don't think the Maquis/Starfleet tensions could last forever and honestly I think the Maquis are too adaptable and pragmatic to let that happen. Alliances spells it out perfectly. Chakotay says Maquis make allies were they can even if it's not ideal.

Frankly, the plot really should've moved away from "Go Home in a straight line" to "There's some horrible danger in this Quadrant that will eventually threaten the Alpha Quadrant. We need to form Alliances here to stop it."

As for the 'lost in space' scenario I'm not sure. Great writing could work I think.

I checked, every "Lost Ship" show over the last 20 years either ended fast or developed larger Galactic Crisis plots to keep going. Lexx, Farscape, Blakes' Seven, SGU, etc.

 

[catshadowsi8]

I checked, every "Lost Ship" show over the last 20 years either ended fast or developed larger Galactic Crisis plots to keep going. Lexx, Farscape, Blakes' Seven, SGU, etc.

But if we stay in the box we never get anything new. We just get wash, rinse, repeat...

 

[Anwar]

But if we stay in the box we never get anything new. We just get wash, rinse, repeat...

Staying the box would be just flying in a straight line, leaving everything behind. Being forced to build up a Delta Alliance to fight someone is something we HADN'T seen in Trek before.

 

[catshadowsi8]

But that's what Starfleet does in the Alpha Quadrant all the time.

 

[Anwar]

But that's what Starfleet does in the Alpha Quadrant all the time.

Not really, they help out with diplomacy and stuff but we've never seen them have to build a real alliance out of nothing.

 

[catshadowsi8]

Not really, they help out with diplomacy and stuff but we've never seen them have to build a real alliance out of nothing.

We get some of this in The Void. It's hinted at in Year of Hell. I could see a season for both but not 7 years. It basically becomes DS9 in the Delta Quadrant and considering both shows were on at the same time for 5 years that's a bit too much imo.

 

[Anwar]

We get some of this in The Void. It's hinted at in Year of Hell. I could see a season for both but not 7 years. It basically becomes DS9 in the Delta Quadrant and considering both shows were on at the same time for 5 years that's a bit too much imo.

I'd see it more as the opposite of DS9. Whereas DS9 was about deconstructing the Federation and showing its flaws and failings, Voyager's hypothetical Delta Alliance storyline could show us the benefits of such a thing and how it can be good.

I've had a Voyager Redo I started doing years ago, in it the Delta Federation plot probably wouldn't start until Season 3 or something.

Of course, I also think having VOY and DS9 on at the same time was also a bad idea. Berman thought so too.