If you could rewrite Voyager

[Herbert]

Some very interesting ideas in this thread. I like the ideas of Paris being Locarno and Janeway being the first officer and having to take over command after the captain is killed.

I would eliminate Neelix and if necessary come up with a less annoying alternative
More maquis/starfleet tension
All that Photons Be Free bullshit would never have happened
Less borg. Much less borg
No Q
I would have turned Tuvok into a competent security officer. However, that would have foiled the plots for a bunch of episodes where everybody and their grandmother's easily circumvented Voyager's security protocols

 

[Herbert]

^That is yet another example of the VOY writers not keeping track of what they've done previously.

Tom convinced Harry to try making a replacement during "Message in a Bottle", there was no mention of a back-up module then.

Not to worry, there's probably 23 people on this board right now trying to piece together some looney tunes theory to explain that.

Which for me begs the question: If you want us, the audience to care, why don't you? The people making it to make money. You were sooo worried about loss well it would help if you payed attention to your storylines. IMO, UPN/Paramount.

I don't disagree but it's not like other Star Trek series aren't guilty of that as well. Just look at the original series. There was no attempt at continuity.

 

[Catarina]

Not to worry, there's probably 23 people on this board right now trying to piece together some looney tunes theory to explain that.



I don't disagree but it's not like other Star Trek series aren't guilty of that as well. Just look at the original series. There was no attempt at continuity.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not picking on Voyager exclusively. It's just that this thread is for Voyager.

 

[Prax]

Maybe at the next conference room sit down, Paris walks in late and says "I have an idea! As soon as the doc gets back, if he gets back, we should have Harry and B'elanna build a back up computer for him."

Ensign Kim "That's not how it works, Tom."

Janeway "Mr. Kim, we are miracle workers. This is Star Trek! Yes, Yes..We are Star Fleet! I have every confidence you two will figure it out. Get to work."

Later in the corridor:
Kim says to Paris "Thanks a lot, dick."
B'elanna walks past, looks at Paris, shakes her head and walks away enraged.

 

[Discofan]

Ok Discofan. Say they change his appearance. Don't you think he would be constantly dropping clues as to who he really was. He was proud of his work, bragged about it in fact. Wouldn't be long before word spread on the ship.

Surely that doctor wasn't the origin of EVERYTHING that was known about this particular specialty of 24th century medicine. He was supposed to be a walking talking encyclopedia according to the same people. So why not give him the traits and personality of some other famous alien doctor, not guilty of crimes against humanity or should I say "sentiality"?

Anyway, I am sure they could have found someone with a little more charisma with the same level of skill, in a galaxy of billions of doctors!!! Give the hologram that personality and deleted the useless anecdotes. The apex of idiocy was when they executed the hologram... Seriously? You just executed a hologram that you created for a purpose for crime that were committed by a person that happens to look and talk like him!! Are you crazy?

Plus how many people know what sacrifices/ experiments had to be done in order to obtain the cure for their disease?
How many even care?

That guy from section 31 was right, not one of the people Bashir saved would care how he got the job, or they would be beyond stupid!

 

[Prax]

The conflict between the doctors was good. The conflict between B'elanna and crell was a little contrived, I thought. It seems it would be more in character for B'elanna to say "He's just a hologram. What do I care?"

 

[catshadowsi8]

Plus how many people know what sacrifices/ experiments had to be done in order to obtain the cure for their disease?
How many even care?

That guy from section 31 was right, not one of the people Bashir saved would care how he got the job, or they would be beyond stupid!

I'm not so sure. Ethics matter to a lot of people. The end doesn't justify the means for them. B'Elanna herself said she would rather die then let him touch her after discovering who he was.

 

[Discofan]

I'm not so sure. Ethics matter to a lot of people. The end doesn't justify the means for them. B'Elanna herself said she would rather die then let him touch her after discovering who he was.

The point is that she didn't need to know and as I said when a doctor prescribes medication you don't inquire how the research to get that medication has been conducted, For all you know, millions of rats died in terrible agony so that you could live today.

The truth is that no valuable contribution has been done by the doctors who did terrible experiments during the Third Reich because they were sadists who weren't interested in curing people, to begin with, but assume you discover someday that one of the vital medication that you're taking has been derived from data left by one of these monsters, would you stop taking it, knowing that you would die in a few days? Honestly, would you?

 

[catshadowsi8]

The point is that she didn't need to know and as I said when a doctor prescribes medication you don't inquire how the research to get that medication has been conducted, For all you know, millions of rats died in terrible agony so that you could live today.

Well according to story he was the best of the best so naturally they choose him and our doctor was clearly not concerned with how the crew would feel because he was focused on one task, saving B'Elanna.

Rats are slightly different than humans imo but I get your point.

 

[catshadowsi8]

Anyway, I am sure they could have found someone with a little more charisma with the same level of skill, in a galaxy of billions of doctors!!! Give the hologram that personality and deleted the useless anecdotes. The apex of idiocy was when they executed the hologram... Seriously? You just executed a hologram that you created for a purpose for crime that were committed by a person that happens to look and talk like him!! Are you crazy?

I wanted to respond to this separately. If you believe he was executed then he is, by definition, a person. We delete programs and execute people. Do you then have the right to change him without his consent? He clearly did not think he had done anything wrong so I question whether he would agree to the modifications you suggest. The doctor didn't in Latent Image.

 

[Anwar]

Just found this thread.

Off the top of my head, I wouldn't have made Voyager a small scout ship. I'd have either made it an older Heavy Cruiser, with a crew in several hundred, or I'd have made it a massive alien ship they get from the Caretaker. Armed with the kind of weaponry that could obliterate several Borg Cubes. The kind of ship that's meant for sustaining a crew of several thousand, meaning that it can easily look after less than 1 thousand.

I'd also have not made it clear they're in the Delta Quadrant (if they go there at all). It should be a complete mystery where they are.

And I'd also make it clear that it was the Caretaker himself who brought the crew to the Array with his own power and not the Array. He just overextended himself and didn't realize how close to death he was, and he didn't have the power to send them back. Once he was dead there was NO way back home. There's no conflict over whether Janeway was right or not to blow up the Array, because going home was never in their control in the first place.

Maybe I'll post more later.

 

[Discofan]

I wanted to respond to this separately. If you believe he was executed then he is, by definition, a person. We delete programs and execute people. Do you then have the right to change him without his consent? He clearly did not think he had done anything wrong so I question whether he would agree to the modifications you suggest. The doctor didn't in Latent Image.

I don't get your reasoning. If you consider that he's a person then he's a different person from the man he was created after, just as the doctor is different from Doctor Zimmerman and he's definitely not responsible for the doctor's crime. If he's not a person then deleting him makes absolutely no sense. It would be like burning someone's picture or using a voddoo doll, it's just stupid and has absolutely no effect on the person. You can't have it both ways.

By refusing treatment and dying, the only person you're punishing is yourself. It has no effect on the people creating the cure or how the cure has been created. I am sure that our whole knowledge of medicine is tainted by actions we would disapprove of, if we knew what they were, which tell us two things, the first one is that ignorance is bliss and the second one is that if you wanted to stick to your principles you'd refuse modern medicine altogether because all of it is at least fruit of the poisonous tree, to use the legal lingo. Of course, that applies even more to the crew of Voyager, all their medicine is based on ours which is tainted. The only honorable way out of this dilemma is to live like cave people so that you're sure that you're not using anything that has been obtained because of someone's suffering.

How did people in prehistorical time know that something was poison? By letting some of them eat it and if they got sick and died then it meant that the food wasn't good. To avoid being poisoned Cleopatra and people of similar power would have people taste their food before eating it.

 

[catshadowsi8]

I don't get your reasoning. If you consider that he's a person then he's a different person from the man he was created after.

But based on the story, and I'm going by the story told on Voyager, he is not different. He basically says he is Moset and would do it again if necessary. If he showed any difference of opinion then your argument holds but he does not so he is essentially Dr. Moset made of up of light.

If you are asking my opinion he was not a person, just a computer program. Deleting his 'program' was not an issue for me. In fact if it causes issues with the living crew, aka the Maquis, then removing him from the data base was the only option.

 

[Catarina]

Forget the Milky Way, what if Voyager was flung into Andromeda? Would she have saved the Ocampa in that Galaxy? Good luck getting home then and let the onboard shit fest begin. Meh I don't see how that would go on 7 years but just a thought ^_^

 

[Anwar]

Forget the Milky Way, what if Voyager was flung into Andromeda? Would she have saved the Ocampa in that Galaxy? Good luck getting home then and let the onboard shit fest begin. Meh I don't see how that would go on 7 years but just a thought ^_^

The whole "Blow up the Array or not" thing just set the show off on the wrong foot because it gave way to the "Look how incompetent she is!" or "Why not used Timed Explosives?" stuff.

Just explain it was the Caretaker himself who brought them there but he was too weak to send them back, and this whole thing is eliminated. There's no moral choice or anything, they're just stranded by random bad luck and that's that.

 

[fireproof78]

Forget the Milky Way, what if Voyager was flung into Andromeda? Would she have saved the Ocampa in that Galaxy? Good luck getting home then and let the onboard shit fest begin. Meh I don't see how that would go on 7 years but just a thought ^_^

Well, they could hear rumors of another Caretaker and be searching for similar technology. Or, perhaps the Caretakers are more mobile, and move from Ocampa colony to Ocampa colony to keep track of them.

 

[Discofan]

Forget the Milky Way, what if Voyager was flung into Andromeda? Would she have saved the Ocampa in that Galaxy? Good luck getting home then and let the onboard shit fest begin. Meh I don't see how that would go on 7 years but just a thought ^_^

I don't think it would have been that much of an issue, Ent-E went to literally the end of the universe and came back.

 

[catshadowsi8]

Well, they could hear rumors of another Caretaker and be searching for similar technology. Or, perhaps the Caretakers are more mobile, and move from Ocampa colony to Ocampa colony to keep track of them.

This would have worked a lot better for Endgame imo. No altered time line, no Admiral Janeway. If you love the Borg they could have been written into a story dealing with the caretaker. It also brings the series full circle. Too bad you were not in the writing room to rap a few knuckles. Lol

 

[fireproof78]

This would have worked a lot better for Endgame imo. No altered time line, no Admiral Janeway. If you love the Borg they could have been written into a story dealing with the caretaker. It also brings the series full circle. Too bad you were not in the writing room to rap a few knuckles. Lol

Well, I was only 13 at the time

Also, I would avoid time travel as much as possible. To me, Endgame fails because its basically Admiral Janeway undoing so many facets of people's lives because Tuvok, Chakotay, and a few others didn't live. In essence, it is a contrast to one of Star Trek's more memorable axioms-"The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many." Which, in my opinion, doesn't work. Not personal responsibility, no lesson learn. Time travel cures our problems.

Now, that said, I would expand upon the Caretakers and their species as a whole. Perhaps the ones with the Ocampa are more benevolent, but others are far more godlike in their engineering efforts. They are not just overseeing the races they are caring for, but manipulating them to become something else, perhaps the "perfect" lifeform. Voyager gets drawn in to it because they start seeing the small issues when they encounter other arrays. Genetic experiments and the like, resulting in an army to take over the Delta Quadrant.

The Borg could become involved (if they must) because they want the Array. So, Voyager must stop the experiments, as well as prevent the Borg from getting the Array.

Just some ideas.

 

[Anwar]

The "Always on the movie" thing also limited the development of the surroundings as well. The whole series should've taken place in the same general area. Like how despite Farscape being about Crichton wanting to go home they never left the area of space the Peacekeepers and Scarrans lived in. The Viddians, Kazon, Krenim, Hirogen, etc all exist in the same area of space instead of a "One at a time" method.