If you could rewrite Voyager

[TiberiusMaximus]

Guy Gardener said: Wrong! wrong! WRONG!!!!

Please admit that you are wrong.

I am sick of telling you that you are wrong.

This is the fifth time I've had to do this.

Accept the truth.

Learn.

It's the FIRST time you used a direct quote to back up what you said. So Anwar missed some dialogue. No big deal.

I like a lot of the ideas here and in Anwar's thread. I would have liked the recurring characters to have more scenes, I would have liked Voyager to regenerate a la Bugs Bunny less often, and I would have liked Chakotay and Harry to be more interesting. I think they had potential but it just wasn't used in my opinion.

 

[Anwar]

Yes, but they didn't make it clear enough that the Array wasn't an option. They need to repeatedly say "I can't get it working in time, and we won't survive another attack!"

Still?

Still?

Still?

CARETAKER: Oh, I wish I could but I have very little time left, so I have initiated a self-destruct programme.
JANEWAY: If you destroy the Array, we'll have no way to get home.
CARETAKER: The Ocampa's enemies can not be allowed to control this installation. In minutes, it;ll be destroyed. You have to go. Go now.

You need to watch Caretaker again.

YOU ARE WRONG!!!!

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

JANEWAY: If he dies, how the hell are we supposed to get home?

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!!!!

JANEWAY: Break out the compression phaser rifles. Meet us in Transporter Room two. We're going back. We'll divide into teams. Mister Tuvok, while Chakotay and I are looking for Torres and Kim, your job is to find out as much about this array as you can. It brought us here. We have to assume it can send us home. Agreed? (Chakotay nods.) Mister Rollins, maintain Red alert. Keep us on constant transporter locks.
PARIS: Captain. I'd like to go with you.

Wrong! wrong! WRONG!!!!

Please admit that you are wrong.

I am sick of telling you that you are wrong.

This is the fifth time I've had to do this.

Accept the truth.

Learn.

You seem to think the Array is too dangerous to use because a few people died in the transition.

bah humbug.

It's only too dangerous for pussies.

Are you calling these kids pussies?

No man, you misunderstood. I wasn't using the "The Array was too dangerous" thing, I meant that they needed to be more clear that the Kazon would be there before they could get it to work and they didn't have the time to fight them off.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I would agree with having Voyager more and more beat up as the series progressed, especially some of the sets. Make her a little less powerful against the Borg, and have less Borg throughout (by the end they just didn't seem to be that much of a threat). Have more tensions between the Starfleet and Maquis crews, though leave out a mutiny.

Would have had a larger pool of recurring characters to use, and not kill half of them off.

I'd have had the ship get back at the start of Season 7, and then focus on their return home, before the crew gets back together for the end of the season to face off against a big bad.

As for characters:
Janeway - Have her more consistant, she does make a few questionable decisions that don't seem to fit with her. I'd also have actually developed a romantic relationship between her and Chakotay.
Chakotay - Make him a bit angrier at the start and more focused on his people than the rest of the ship, but have him soften over time. As above, have him and Janeway actually hooking up.
Tuvok - Develop the friendship between him and Janeway, make him more of an advisor/confidant to her.
Paris - As a cocky and arrogant character, he fitted the bill, who grew up over time. Maybe would have had him actually as Nicholas Locarno though.
Torres - I wouldn't have her reconcile her human and Klingon halfs, her hatred of her Klingon side made her a much more interesting character.
Kim - Personally would have made him homosexual, just so Trek had an open gay man on the crew.
The Doctor - Would have kept him in sickbay, maybe holo-emitters on the bridge and in engineering. And made him less 'human', he's a computer programme capable of so much more than a mere human being, would have done more with that.
Neelix - Made him younger and buffer (the whole him and Kes thing would seem less creepy that way).
Kes - Rise her maximum age up a little, but keep the telepathic abilities. Do more on the master-student relationship between her and Tuvok. Keep her for the entire series, focusing on field medicine and training as a doctor.
Seven - Brought her onboard and made her return to humanity longer and tougher on everyone.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

^I agree with just about everything on that list, except for Janeway/Chakotay, Harry, and Neelix. I would have totally done away with Neelix or made him a totally different character.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

So not everything then?

Would do something else with Neelix as well, but I'd think that if tha actor was different the character would be adapted and changed.

-B

 

[mirandafave]

In general the notion of having more tension between the Starfleet crew and the Maquis seems to be the way to go. However, SGU had an aspect of that and tried to deliever such tension leading up to a mutiny and in general it was decried. Therefore, it would be a tricky balance to get right. However, sweeping it under the carpet so soon doesn't quite work either. I think some tension would have been good, but perhaps initially rather than tension it should have been more along the lines of the Maquis as rescued passengers, [even prisoners in the beginning though that would require some deft resolution] who are kept away from Starfleet systems. But crisis after crisis Janeway sees need for crew to replace her depleted crew. Also suggestions about doing things the Maquis way - tactics, survival skills, etc. Make the Maquis different in style and manner to the Starfleet crew. They seem to integrate too easily. I get that many were former Starfleet officers - but not all were and those that were left for reasons to do with following the rules and chain of command issues.

As for the Chak, obviously develop him more. Having him trying to protect his people and their corner and maybe convincing the captain to let them help might have served to define him more. Which might mean not making him the XO. Maybe in the end he could take over tactical and have Tuvok as acting XO.

The sense of damage or limited resources need not be constant but crop up more seriously from time to time. Ok holodecks allow for cheap stories but at least try to limit them. My beef with it is how the loss of original Voyager crew is seemingly replinished by the Maquis crew they take on. A shortfall in personnel would have added a sense of struggling with things, a need to take on the Maquis as crew, rather than making every fit the quota so the rota doesn't need to be changed, only tipexed out.

And concur on more regular appearing characters. On a small ship going to bump into a lot of familiar faces. They actually seem to have an element of this backstage with the extras - but why not flesh it out more, give some real characters to mix in with the other main cast. Maybe that way Kim could have gotten a bit of development through interacting with these other characters. Take Good Shepherd as an example, Voyager created some great guest characters but never truly capitalised on it. Vorik, Luder, Carey and Seska show how they could pull it off to great success. Just more please.

 

[Lynx]

I don't think there should have been any fighting between Starfleet and Maquis. In fact, the Starfleet-Maquis issue was handled good by the writers.

Why? Because Chakotay and his people were smart enough to see that Voyager was their only way home. A mutiny was out of the question since the Maquis were only about 30 people, not many enough to take over and run the ship.

As for how I would have re-written the show:

Kes should have stayed and had a prolonged lifespan.

The ship should have stayed a while longer at "The 37's planet" and most of the Kazon episodes should have taken place there.

Not so many Borg episodes, instead the episodes should have had more enconters with other species.

Seven should have been an enemy to the ship in seasons 4 and 5, then she should have been captured in season 6 and started her way to find her humanity then.

Lt. Carey shouldn't have been killed off.

Neelix should have stayed on the ship.

The final episodes should have been an encounter with Suspiria, the female Caretaker.

The end episodes should have been about their homecoming.

And why not a "happy ending" between Janeway and Chakotay at the end.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Guy Gardener said: Wrong! wrong! WRONG!!!!

Please admit that you are wrong.

I am sick of telling you that you are wrong.

This is the fifth time I've had to do this.

Accept the truth.

Learn.

It's the FIRST time you used a direct quote to back up what you said. So Anwar missed some dialogue. No big deal.

I like a lot of the ideas here and in Anwar's thread. I would have liked the recurring characters to have more scenes, I would have liked Voyager to regenerate a la Bugs Bunny less often, and I would have liked Chakotay and Harry to be more interesting. I think they had potential but it just wasn't used in my opinion.

It seemed like an old argument from many other threads over the last year or so which we've rehashed a few times which underscored the fundamentals on why they couldn't go home.

My bad, it was a new argument. Sorry Anwar. Although, I had already attempted to counter the reinforcements argument a couple posts before he brought this chestnut forward.

But here's the real counter against the reinforcements argument.

How big a *&^% is Janeway? I

Was she so afraid of potential and possibility of hypothetical new kazon arriving any minute from then on, that she's obviously not going back to Ocampa to kickstart their self-sufficiency regime and defences before the Kazon do really come back to steal the Ocampa's water (and city) which will kill the entire Ocampan civilization, even though she told Caretaker that's what decent people should do, (as if she had never even heard of the Prime Directive?) to teach the Ocampa to stand up to the kazon?

Voyager would have to stay in orbit of Ocampa for at least a month to teach this child race of talking cows how to mine, process and market Ocampa's rich cormaline deposits as well as defend themselves with the left behind kazon technology (weapons) so that they could trade with their neighbours with some degree of safety that they're not thumped rather than paid 7 times out of 9.

At the very least, write the Ocampa some holographic tutorials to continue their education in being autonomous even if there was some danger of the ocampa turning a tutorial even if it didn't have the most complicated AI into a new caretaker/god.

Kathy had to teach the Ocampa how to fish before they starved, which would have been a decently lengthened mission in Ocampan space pulling down the kazon flag on that world probably fending off a few more (dozen?) attacks by the Kazon Ogla who wanted their world, mine/quarry and shop back which Janeway had stolen.

That's a kazon world.

The Array was some magical bullshit.

She took their home. (The Maquis might sympathize with that?)

She took a fricking planet off them which was bloody useful and bloody valuable, which she then made sure was bloody defended from any takeback or... Did Janeway run IMMEDIATELY and cannibalism withstanding as a delaying tactic, the Ocampa starved to death when the Caretakers power ran out, and the kazon Cormaline salesmen culled the few refugees leftover as they rose to the barren Kazon controlled surface looking for food which doesn't exist.

How big a &^%* was Janeway?

 

[Willieck]

Guy Gardener said: Wrong! wrong! WRONG!!!!

Please admit that you are wrong.

I am sick of telling you that you are wrong.

This is the fifth time I've had to do this.

Accept the truth.

Learn.

It's the FIRST time you used a direct quote to back up what you said. So Anwar missed some dialogue. No big deal.

I like a lot of the ideas here and in Anwar's thread. I would have liked the recurring characters to have more scenes, I would have liked Voyager to regenerate a la Bugs Bunny less often, and I would have liked Chakotay and Harry to be more interesting. I think they had potential but it just wasn't used in my opinion.

It seemed like an old argument from many other threads over the last year or so which we've rehashed a few times which underscored the fundamentals on why they couldn't go home.

My bad, it was a new argument. Sorry Anwar. Although, I had already attempted to counter the reinforcements argument a couple posts before he brought this chestnut forward.

But here's the real counter against the reinforcements argument.

How big a *&^% is Janeway? I

Was she so afraid of potential and possibility of hypothetical new kazon arriving any minute from then on, that she's obviously not going back to Ocampa to kickstart their self-sufficiency regime and defences before the Kazon do really come back to steal the Ocampa's water (and city) which will kill the entire Ocampan civilization, even though she told Caretaker that's what decent people should do, (as if she had never even heard of the Prime Directive?) to teach the Ocampa to stand up to the kazon?

Voyager would have to stay in orbit of Ocampa for at least a month to teach this child race of talking cows how to mine, process and market Ocampa's rich cormaline deposits as well as defend themselves with the left behind kazon technology (weapons) so that they could trade with their neighbours with some degree of safety that they're not thumped rather than paid 7 times out of 9.

At the very least, write the Ocampa some holographic tutorials to continue their education in being autonomous even if there was some danger of the ocampa turning a tutorial even if it didn't have the most complicated AI into a new caretaker/god.

Kathy had to teach the Ocampa how to fish before they starved, which would have been a decently lengthened mission in Ocampan space pulling down the kazon flag on that world probably fending off a few more (dozen?) attacks by the Kazon Ogla who wanted their world, mine/quarry and shop back which Janeway had stolen.

That's a kazon world.

The Array was some magical bullshit.

She took their home. (The Maquis might sympathize with that?)

She took a fricking planet off them which was bloody useful and bloody valuable, which she then made sure was bloody defended from any takeback or... Did Janeway run IMMEDIATELY and cannibalism withstanding as a delaying tactic, the Ocampa starved to death when the Caretakers power ran out, and the kazon Cormaline salesmen culled the few refugees leftover as they rose to the barren Kazon controlled surface looking for food which doesn't exist.

How big a &^%* was Janeway?

Come on kiddies play nicely.

 

[kimc]

^They couldn't use timed explosives. I've complained in the past about that, but after rewatching "Caretaker" about a month ago, they make it pretty clear that it would take at least several hours to figure out the Caretaker's technology, and that Kazon reinforcements would arrive before then.

Oh sure, use logic and common sense to take the fun out of the "Janeway is an idiot because she didn't use timed explosives" argument. Killjoy.

 

[froot]

^ Don't forget that the array also killed a ton of people when they rode the displacement wave the first time! I was always surprised they never addressed that as a potential issue in the show as well - seems like a very dangerous way to travel.

I guess they could have installed seatbelts or something if they wanted to use it to get home.

 

[Guy Gardener]

All the people who died were on tippytoes in the middle of a ballet recital.

Yes.

On both ships.

A remarkable coincidence.

 

[CaptJamesScott]

I would have introduced a stable enemy that persists throughout the show's run, and no, not the Borg. A new enemy limited to the Delta Quadrant. I also would have introduced story arcs into the show, to add to the reality that the crew is lost in the Delta Quadrant.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sound reasonable thoughts.

The same sound reasonable thoughts that forced Ronald D Moore to run.

 

[Anwar]

They tried to introduce a recurring enemy in the form of the Kazon. That failure convinced the writers that the audience didn't want enemies who would keep showing up.

Frankly, VOY missed one opportunity in "Scorpion". They should have just made it clear that the 8472 had destroyed the majority of the Borg and by the end all that was left was a small remnant. As in, they wouldn't be attacking the Feds anymore and if any of the former Borg-preyed species wanted to they could just wipe out the Borg in a mass attack if they wanted. Making the Borg this big, trillion-inhabited mass empire was a bad idea.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I know it's never been said, but Stargate's Replicators, I always assumed that one lone nanoprobe could begin a chain reaction which could if left unchecked assimilate a planet and then move on to some other task like your average ordinary garden variety Zombie Apocalypse.

Of course, the Borg don't want everyone and and they're probably waiting for other races to grow up to a point that are worthy/have something to bring to the party, that it is not in the Borgs best interest to assimilate geometrically and open endedly

 

[Winterwind]

While some holodeck bits did nothing for me (I can't stand holodeck romances), no holodeck episodes mean no Captain Proton and Bride of Chaotic! so I'm surprised to see people saying they'd ditch those entirely.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm wondering what the show would have been like if Janeway had had children?

I believed that she was more invested in getting back to see her dog than to snuggle with her finance Mark, because how sexist was it to say that she was incomplete because kathy was suppressing areas of her life to prop up her career in Starfleet because if you're going to create a character so emotionally vacant that she can't form connections with a potential suitor without someone lying or being brainwashed then some where deep down she is broken.

(Though considering that human life expectancy has been quadrupled, it's possible that menopause doesn't hit (on average) till some where near a ladys 80th or 90th birthday? If Janeway still had half a century of fertility left, then I admit that I am being a pig.)

If she left a kid behind that would dismiss these thoughts proving that once upon a time that Janeway was capable of love if only briefly since she's obviously not invested in her sperm donor anymore, besides, it's someone to go home for who isn't going to replace her with some one easier and less dead. Doesn't Mark know that death doesn't stop true love? It just slows it down a little... Alternately god help us if theur was a ten year old Janeway running around the ship in season one.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Janeway did have children. With Tom Paris.

Lizard children.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

I'd definitely recast some of the characters to be a bit less stale. About 70% of the acting was very bland, especially in contrast to the incredible performance put on by Avery Brooks & co. on DS9.

The ship would start running out of redshirts after a while, making it apparent that they had no help of any kind.

I'd either make Seven of Nine less of a token sex-appeal character or ditch her entirely.

It's kind of obvious, but Neelix would suffer horrible death at the behest of my creative whimsy.

I'd ditch about 90% of the Borg and Holodeck episodes, effectively chucking about half of the series along with it...