If you aren't familiar with metre/meters and so on...

[Timewalker]

I'm sure it would take much longer than just two decades. At least three, probably four.

Seriously, 40 YEARS to learn how to multiply and divide by 10 and figure out where to put the decimals?

I'm sure it would take much longer than just two decades. At least three, probably four.

Maybe, maybe not.

The US is what one of only 3 countries in the world not to use the metric system? Surely that is not beneficial to the US is the global economy? Sure older people might have more trouble adjusting to SI units but the younger generation(s) are simply brought up with it and it becomes the norm. People using different systems can cause confusion i.e. didn't NASA lose a probe because a contractor used Imperial instead of SI units. Even discussions on the Internet can cause confusion i.e ask someone what the temapture today was and they might say 40 now is that hot or cold, it depends if you are using C or F doesn't it? To something like 95% of the worlds population they would say that's hot, to something 5% they would say it's cold. Of course it's a non issue when they write 40F but more often or not the scale is never given.

I started learning metric in 1972, in Grade 5. My junior high science classes used metric exclusively. By the time I was taking my high school chemistry courses, I was completely comfortable using metric measurements in most situations. Nowadays I may prefer to use miles instead of kilometres and inches instead of centimetres, but have no problem converting back and forth when convenient. It really is easier to measure some things in metric than imperial. I will admit that I can't visualize a hectare, but neither can I visualize 16 oz. of some liquid. As for temperatures, thank goodness for Celsius, as the other scale never did make any sense to me.

 

[MacLeod]

But isn't it about what is best for future generations?

No, it's about whether there is a legitimate excuse for someone to not know and/or use the metric system in the here and now.

Like any change the current generation can have a harder time adapting to the change,...

Some folks don't find change necessary. It doesn't make life any easier, but just because Tom, Dick and Harry do something doesn't mean that John, Mike, and Eddie should have to.

...so sure the Imperial system worked for you but will it work as well for the Millenium generation?

Whether or not it works for the Millennial Generation is beyond the scope of what I was addressing but, in the end, I would imagine that it would depend upon each individuals occupation. Personally, I fully expect that America and the other hold-outs will eventually cave in and go metric. I don't know if it will happen in my lifetime, but at this point I would say that it's inevitable. I just don't believe that there is anything wrong with the fact that are currently people on this planet who don't currently use or understand the metric system.

I wasn't addrssing whether or not someone should know or not know SI units, that's fine if you don't care for them or don't want to use them, but surely it would be more beneficial for future generations if the US started to adopt the metric system more than it has?

Sure the UK hasn't fully adopted metric the hold outs seem to be things like distance on roads/peoples height but for more exact distances people will use mm/cm insead of inches.

And you could say the US doesn't actually use the Imperial system it uses a system called US customary units

For example an

Imp Gallon = 4.55ltr whilst a US Gallon (liquid) = 3.77ltr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_imperial_and_US_customary_measurement_systems

 

[Robert Comsol]

I remember my problems trying to convert degrees Fahrenheit into degrees Celsius and using this complicated conversion formula I forget every time until I look it up again.

I've memorized all the other conversion formulas (inches > centimeters, feet > centimeters and/or meters, miles > kilometers) but the temperature conversion one is a nightmare.

Celsius should rule the world.

Bob

 

[Bad Thoughts]

To those who think metric and imperial cannot coexist, do you use the ten-hour clock or the ten-day week? These are metric concepts that failed. Like meters, liters, celsius, etc., they faced opposition because other system of measurement were more familiar. On the other hand, they were utterly useless. Not failed but not universally used: the 100-grad quarter circle.

 

[Metryq]

we're on the verge of getting into an argument about a ruler, basically!

Leaders offer coordination. We don't need no stinkin' rulers.

 

[Lance]

The US is what one of only 3 countries in the world not to use the metric system?

I know, to those of us who've changed it seems mental, doesn't it?

The reality is that there was a push by the US government in, what, the 1970s to change? The public didn't take to it. So it was quietly dropped.

Mind you, when the UK switched over it was also a hard sell. Wasn't uncommon for market stall holders etc to continue using the old measurements when selling fruit and so on, it wasn't until it was enforced with on-the-spot fines for infringements and such that people came around.

I like that Star Trek's future works on the assumption that Metric is standard. It seems logical to assume that. Although I'm sure there were at least a few occasions in TOS where Imperial measurements slipped through into dialogue...

 

[T'Girl]

but surely it would be more beneficial for future generations if the US started to adopt the metric system more than it has?

Why? There no big push here to change away from what we're currently using.

Having one measurement system make the same level of sense as having just one worldwide language, or one currency.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

To say there's no excuse for not knowing how to use the metric system is a bit harsh. I was not properly educated on the metric system.

Learning should be an active process, not a passive one. What we learn is as much a function of our own initiative and curiosity as of what others choose to teach us. If others don't properly educate you on something, that's not an excuse to remain in the dark -- it's an incentive to find out for yourself.

Saying that there's no excuse for not knowing how to use the metric system is VERY harsh and it's mostly been because of elitist attitudes like this that I've never had much interest in the metric system.

I've made it forty-three years on this Earth just fine using the old, reliable, Imperial system and I have a perfect excuse. The metric system has no bearing on the quality of my life and I couldn't care less about it.

The majority of the world uses it: good for them, I promise I won't go to France and expect them to sell me three pounds of coffee without them feeling annoyed.

The metric system may be the universal system for international commerce, but it is in no way shape or form used that much in American commerce. Not only do I regularly buy bulk items by the pound, but for almost a decade (before my health went south) I was a weighmaster at a local recycling plant. Even on a corporate level, we did all our transactions by the pound or by the imperial ton. A great deal of our corrugated cardboard was shipped to China and Canada and all of the paperwork (at least on our end) listed imperial weights.

The bottom line is I don't need and I don't want it. It doesn't mean that I don't believe learning should be an active process, I simply have no use for it and the only benefit to learning it would be not having to look up a conversion every once in a very long while.

You're not a scientist, though. It's true, for every day use there's no objective difference in usefulness between imperial units and metrics. If you're in scientific fields, it is objectively better to have everything based on uniform orders of magnitude.

There is a difference between 'Blindly conforming' and 'Making a rational choice to adopt something that is clearly more effective'. Blindly conforming is just as bad as blindly refusing to change. Either way you're making your decision based on what other people are doing, not based on reason. Just like in Wimbledon they refused to put a roof on Center Court for years just because 'It's not traditional' then every god damned year it rained and the final got delayed to the following Tuesday. No, don't add the roof to conform to the rest of the world, add the roof because it's obviously the intelligent thing to do.

 

[MacLeod]

but surely it would be more beneficial for future generations if the US started to adopt the metric system more than it has?

Why? There no big push here to change away from what we're currently using.

Having one measurement system make the same level of sense as having just one worldwide language, or one currency.

We are lviing in an increasingly global village, using the same system of measuremnt is surely benefical to keep on a level playing field isn't?. Avoids confusion. As for why there is no big push the perception from some of these comments basically seems to be basically sticking your head in the sand and pretending that things don't change over time. As has already been pointed out it could take 1 or 2 generations for the chage to fully take effect so many of those alive today who are resistant to switching to metric won't be around, yet their children and childrens children will be around it is for them the change would be made.

But to turn around the question why not change, what are the benefits of keeping US customary units?

Well striclly speaking we have a de facto world language, English.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Well striclly speaking we have a de facto world language, English.

Which we speak in hundreds of different ways.

 

[Lance]

As has already been pointed out it could take 1 or 2 generations for the chage to fully take effect so many of those alive today who are resistant to switching to metric won't be around, yet their children and childrens children will be around it is for them the change would be made.

Absolutely. And that was basically the way in which it was logically phased in here in Australia. The government essentially said "forget about the older generation, let them use their imperial measurements", but they opted instead to teach Metric in schools so, over a 7-12 year cycle, you've got an instant generation who already know how it all works. Maybe have two or three generations where both systems are taught, an overlap period, but eventually make it a single system, and there will already be a generation or two of people ready to adapt. And then, you haven't got a problem. It worked.

Well striclly speaking we have a de facto world language, English.

Which we speak in hundreds of different ways.

True enough, but MacLeod's point still stands. When I was in Paris last year I seen an Itallian speaker and a German speaker converse with each other despite not knowing the other's language. How? Because both of them could speak English. So, English was the common language. Broke down the communication boundries they otherwise would've had. Basic grammatical differences are neither here nor there when English works as a common, understandable launguage by everyone.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

MacLeod[/B]'s point still stands. When I was in Paris last year I seen an Itallian speaker and a German speaker converse with each other despite not knowing the other's language. How? Because both of them could speak English. So, English was the common language. Broke down the boundries they otherwise would've had. Basic grammatical differences are neither here nor there when English works as a common, understandable language by everyone.

I have had such conversations myself: with Swahili speakers in French, with Japanese speakers in German. We could pile on the examples of various pidgins that aid in commerce, whether for making purchases at an open market or landing an airplane. They work because they are useful, and after that, the speakers switch back to the languages that conform to their experiences. It's not a good argument for choosing one measurement system over another, but one for their coexistence.

 

[MacLeod]

As has already been pointed out it could take 1 or 2 generations for the chage to fully take effect so many of those alive today who are resistant to switching to metric won't be around, yet their children and childrens children will be around it is for them the change would be made.

Absolutely. And that was basically the way in which it was logically phased in here in Australia. The government essentially said "forget about the older generation, let them use their imperial measurements", but they opted instead to teach Metric in schools so, over a 7-12 year cycle, you've got an instant generation who already know how it all works. Maybe have two or three generations where both systems are taught, an overlap period, but eventually make it a single system, and there will already be a generation or two of people ready to adapt. And then, you haven't got a problem. It worked.

That's pretty much how it worked in the UK as well, a phased roll out of it. I was in the generation that was brought up with both, so I can switch between the two.

It might seem somewhat cynical but I think the US system of Government is too polarised to make the change, if for example the Democratic Party tried to pass a law for a phased change over to be finished by say 2040 I suspect the GOP would denounce it and perhaps vice versa.

 

[Metryq]

Having one measurement system make the same level of sense as having just one worldwide language, or one currency.

One language? Maybe, but I don't see it happening. English became so widespread because of the empire, certainly not because it is a well-ordered and efficient language.

One currency? Europe already made that mistake, and it is in an entirely different category from using a single system of measurement.

Perhaps I am showing my lack of worldliness, but I gather that most, if not all, modern nations are using the same calendar and units of time (hours, minutes, seconds) and the same numbers—all for commerce, at least, if no other reason.

 

[MacLeod]

One of the core problems with the euro is that you can't really have monetary union without political union. But we don't wan't to turn this thread into yet another debate on the EU.

The US is also differnt in the fact that it uses the format mm-dd-yy instead of far more common dd-mm-yy, or that it uses the 12hr clock instead of the 24hr clock does this forum even have an option to use the 24hr clock format?

 

[Uhurock]

One of the core problems with the euro is that you can't really have monetary union without political union. But we don't wan't to turn this thread into yet another debate on the EU.

The US is also differnt in the fact that it uses the format mm-dd-yy instead of far more common dd-mm-yy, or that it uses the 12hr clock instead of the 24hr clock does this forum even have an option to use the 2hr clock format?

Funnily enough, the US Military uses the 24-hour clock and dd-mm-yy, and over 20 years I got quited used to it. It annoys the hell out of me that I can't fill in blanks on my computer in that fashion, I suppose because I "orient" my computer to American English.

Would that US English-oriented computers could automatically calculate distance, weight, and liquid measures to metric. At least there are web pages where I can do that.

But who's to say that the Vulcans haven't come up with even better measures than metric?

 

[Enterprise1701]

The typical U.S. date format is so dumb. month-day-year is like saying face, nose, body when describing a human body or saying New York New York City United States. It's ridiculous. And I hate how my iPhone won't let me put day or year first without using a different country's/language's formatting.

 

[HIjol]

The typical U.S. date format is so dumb. month-day-year is like saying face, nose, body when describing a human body or saying New York New York City United States. It's ridiculous. And I hate how my iPhone won't let me put day or year first without using a different country's/language's formatting.

hey, now!!!...

...god bless every 12 hour clock, proper date format, inch, foot, yard and mile of the United States of America...

...ok, ok, except for Hubble...

 

[HIjol]

But who's to say that the Vulcans haven't come up with even better measures than metric?

...hmm...how many Sareks in a Sybok?

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

The calendar is a crazy one. It's pretty much fudged (as you know) to correspond to the Earth's rotation around the sun. Hence, the every-four-year leap year to keep it working. I heard somewhere once (and can't verify it) that every century will need a Febuary 30th to pick up the accumulated slack. Can any of you guys verify this?