If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Recast

[Quinton O'Connor]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Yep, I'd have to kiss martok for that, too.

...not a sentence I ever thought I'd type.

 

[martok2112]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Yep, I'd have to kiss martok for that, too.

...not a sentence I ever thought I'd type.

Well, I'm not about to open a kissing booth that says "The Doctor is In/Out", so we'll just have to settle for a handshake... or perhaps a Vulcan high-five. "Live Long and Keep It Real!"

 

[Ghost]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I think Star Trek is at its best when it entertains and is smart, making even the regular watcher pause for a moment and give a new concept or idea some thought.

I will agree. I know Star Trek is not supposed to be Star Wars, but when the action is good, it's really good.

However, among my favorite Star Trek is "City on the Edge of Forever", "Far Beyond the Stars", "Inner Light", "Chain of Command".

Also, there is an episode of Voyager where Tuvok betrays Janeway's trust for the greater needs of the crew....taking a piece of technology that was forbidden to them by the planet they were dealing with, and that Janeway supported that forbiddance (I just made that word up...lol). Anyway, Tuvok confesses his complicity and authority over the plan that betrays Janeway's trust in him. To me, it was one of her finest moments of acting in that show...because she so straddled the emotional line between being authoritatively angered with Tuvok, and wanting to cry at the personal strife that his actions caused her. It was a beautifully acted piece that remains one of my favorite scenes in all of Star Trek. That scene nearly moved me to tears.

Entertainment doesn't mean it has to be all action and that it can not have emotional moments that touch your heart. As long as it is involving and you enjoy watching it it is entertaining

Edit: just to be sure I looked up the definition of 'entertainment'. I may have gotten it a little wrong but I still mean that if you want to watch an emotional scene because you enjoy those than the show succeeds in what it is trying to do.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

True, but simply being an action film also doesn't exclude a film from being smart or having heart. It goes both ways.

People need to stop using genre as shorthand for 'bad' or 'dumb'. It's happens a lot with comedy too. Unless it's satire or dramedy , you will find people who dismiss out and out comedy as unintelligent. Horror also tends to cop it. Try telling any non horror fan that the Nightmare on Elm Street series has social commentary, and you'll either get a laugh or a patronising 'Of course it does.'

 

[Ghost]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I think it mostly comes from what those genres are mostly now Hela, and not how they could have been or what they are like in some cases.
Now an action movie is considered mostly dumb, forgetting that an action movie can have smart, emotional involving, and even social commentary too.
Goes the same for the other genres.

I think stereotyping and Flanderization in sequels to popular movies are also to blame, stripping away deeper context because either the producer did not get it or feels it stands in the way of the new story he wants to make.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Yes, but most of the content in every genre is 'dumb'. That's just Sturgeons law in practice. It's always been that way, and probably always will.

Preference for a certain genre is a different thing - that's just personal taste for certain conventions, techniques, etc. Fifty Shades of Grey and Two-Headed Shark are equally dumb, but I know which one I prefer.

Of course, if you don't prefer a genre then you're much less likely to find that 2% of quality. Someone who happened to accidentally cop a triple showing of 'Omega Glory', 'Spock's Brain' and 'Children Shall Lead', probably isn't going to stick around to find the better episodes. People dismissing genres is that attitude, but on a bigger scale.

 

[martok2112]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I think Star Trek is at its best when it entertains and is smart, making even the regular watcher pause for a moment and give a new concept or idea some thought.

I will agree. I know Star Trek is not supposed to be Star Wars, but when the action is good, it's really good.

However, among my favorite Star Trek is "City on the Edge of Forever", "Far Beyond the Stars", "Inner Light", "Chain of Command".

Also, there is an episode of Voyager where Tuvok betrays Janeway's trust for the greater needs of the crew....taking a piece of technology that was forbidden to them by the planet they were dealing with, and that Janeway supported that forbiddance (I just made that word up...lol). Anyway, Tuvok confesses his complicity and authority over the plan that betrays Janeway's trust in him. To me, it was one of her finest moments of acting in that show...because she so straddled the emotional line between being authoritatively angered with Tuvok, and wanting to cry at the personal strife that his actions caused her. It was a beautifully acted piece that remains one of my favorite scenes in all of Star Trek. That scene nearly moved me to tears.

Entertainment doesn't mean it has to be all action and that it can not have emotional moments that touch your heart. As long as it is involving and you enjoy watching it it is entertaining

Edit: just to be sure I looked up the definition of 'entertainment'. I may have gotten it a little wrong but I still mean that if you want to watch an emotional scene because you enjoy those than the show succeeds in what it is trying to do.

I agree. All I ask of any show or movie (or video game) is entertain me. If it has done that, job well done.

That's why I love so much of Star Trek, regardless of which show or movie it is: They entertained me...simple enough, whether it was an action based ep, or a philosophical ep, or an emotional ep, or what have you. Yes, Trek has its turkeys, but even they, in some way, were entertaining.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Difference being is that I would rather the franchise retain those elements that made it unique, rather than throw them all away for the sake of ticket sales.

Then the franchise dies, and will (most likely) never be resurrected again by anybody (except for a few fan productions catering to a ageing and dwindling fanbase.) Is that what you want?

 

[Overgeeked]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Difference being is that I would rather the franchise retain those elements that made it unique, rather than throw them all away for the sake of ticket sales.

Then the franchise dies, and will (most likely) never be resurrected again by anybody (except for a few fan productions catering to a ageing and dwindling fanbase.) Is that what you want?

Then it dies. So what? If my options are between something that is Star Trek in name only due to its lack of content, philosophy, and messaging or the franchise 'officially' stopping cold... I'd pick the franchise 'officially' stopping cold every time. I've been through it before with other franchises.

Better a fond memory than a pissed-on past. Think of it like this... remember Elvis? Remember how he became a complete joke at the end of his life? How be just kept getting fatter and became a complete marketing tool hawking any old thing and all the product placements the studios put in his movies and songs? Remember that whole album that was just a marketing ploy for KFC? Me neither, because he died before that could happen. Far better that he died when he did rather than becoming a simple sales machine.

So yeah, I'd much rather things simply die before they mutate into something unrecognizable.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

What 'elements' are these anyway? The TOS movies all ditched some of the things that gave TOS its identity, and TNG did the same for TOS and the films. Each successive series has done the same thing.

Of course, you could argue there is still common threads between all those series...just like I can argue that there is some between TOS and 09/STID.

EDIT: I know this is stating the bleeding obvious, but Star Trek is just some TV shows and movies. It does not have feelings, get insulted, 'mutate', or be humiliated. If you're in a position where you willing to just let the whole franchise die because you personally don't like what it's doing, then stop watching.

Instead you'd prefer others miss out on something they like, just because you can't bring yourself to ignore some movies. Which is....mind boggling to me.

DOUBLE EDIT: Elvis Presley was a human being, whose family and loved ones would no doubt disagree with you that it's better he's now just a 'fond memory', as opposed to living long enough to possibly be temporarily embarrassed. Jesus Christ.

 

[BillJ]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Then it dies. So what? If my options are between something that is Star Trek in name only due to its lack of content, philosophy, and messaging or the franchise 'officially' stopping cold... I'd pick the franchise 'officially' stopping cold every time. I've been through it before with other franchises.

Then just quit watching, like many of us did during the Berman years.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Pine should've been cast as Captain Robert April, with a whole new crew as well, when the ship was originally launched. That way when actors wanted to leave and move onto other things then we could've gotten Christopher Pike, Number One, and the rest replacing them, before they left and were replaced by Kirk and Co.

Granted a few would have to commit to more movies than the others, but it would help show a realistic progression of careers, crew sacrifices, etc.

It always bugs me when characters are recast with different actors after just a film or two, they rarely ever live up to the original (no that isn't a direct dig at NuTrek).

I really wish the powers that be would follow this blueprint.

Why its pretty much using the TOS characters with the serial numbers filed off.

All Roddenberry did between going from April to Pike to Kirk was change the names, same with Boyce to Piper to McCoy (and that was only becuase they apparently wouldn't let Roddenberry cast DeForest Kelley in the role until TOS proper).

I do not get this fascination with characters that were largely placeholder names, hell even Pike only became an interesting character in his own right due to the JJ films and that was by using him as a mentor character.

 

[mos6507]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

If you feel that way, then why do franchises need to cling to the same core characters and reboot them constantly (while transforming them to fit modern fashion trends) rather than creating new ones?

There's nothing that can't be achieved through good writing. The degree to which Hollywood leans on brand recognition above all else is just plain laziness.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

You can apply that logic to any sequel. Why bother continuing the thing that has been set up for you by someone else? Why not make up your own world and characters? Meyer, you lazy ass!

You want to know why Hollywood keeps putting out franchises? Because fans want them, and were willing to pay to get them. In terms of the films, people apparently want more TOS and always have. We paid to keep the TOS series going until it bowed out on its own terms, and we paid even more to see it rebooted. If DS9/VOY/ENT and the TNG films had been rousing successes with a high demand for more, maybe you would have got more 'new crew' series. But they weren't, so you didn't.

And no, 'good writing' guarantees nothing. DS9 was my favourite series, but even I'm not blind enough to deny that it played its part in Modern Treks eventual axing. DS9 and VOY steadily bled viewers, and ENT was where things got terminal.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Someone who happened to accidentally cop a triple showing of 'Omega Glory', 'Spock's Brain' and 'Children Shall Lead', probably isn't going to stick around to find the better episodes.

Omega Glory was good episode, I'd place it basically in the middle of the pack. Certainly wouldn't have any problems with it being one of the first episodes a new viewer sees.

Shatner reading the Preamble, one of Star Trek's greatest moments.

"

 

[fireproof78]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

You can apply that logic to any sequel. Why bother continuing the thing that has been set up for you by someone else? Why not make up your own world and characters? Meyer, you lazy ass!

You want to know why Hollywood keeps putting out franchises? Because fans want them, and were willing to pay to get them. In terms of the films, people apparently want more TOS and always have. We paid to keep the TOS series going until it bowed out on its own terms, and we paid even more to see it rebooted. If DS9/VOY/ENT and the TNG films had been rousing successes with a high demand for more, maybe you would have got more 'new crew' series. But they weren't, so you didn't.

And no, 'good writing' guarantees nothing. DS9 was my favourite series, but even I'm not blind enough to deny that it played its part in Modern Treks eventual axing. DS9 and VOY steadily bled viewers, and ENT was where things got terminal.

It's partial laziness, but it is also partial fear. If they change something, then people may not buy it and they'll lose money.

 

[Starborn Dragon]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

It has to be this or it has to be that.

Sorry, but tossed salad goes well with scrambled eggs.

Those things are decades old. let's go on to something new with the base philosophy intact.

 

[thumbtack]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

You can apply that logic to any sequel. Why bother continuing the thing

He's never been able to explain how a spinoff is more creative than a reboot.


.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Someone who happened to accidentally cop a triple showing of 'Omega Glory', 'Spock's Brain' and 'Children Shall Lead', probably isn't going to stick around to find the better episodes.

Omega Glory was good episode, I'd place it basically in the middle of the pack. Certainly wouldn't have any problems with it being one of the first episodes a new viewer sees.

Shatner reading the Preamble, one of Star Trek's greatest moments.

"

I find it a combination of hilarious incompetence and outright racism (Americaaa. FUCK! YEAH! Here to save the motherfucking day...) Different strokes.

 

[BillJ]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I find it a combination of hilarious incompetence and outright racism (Americaaa. FUCK! YEAH! Here to save the motherfucking day...) Different strokes.

I don't know? The Yangs clearly weren't the good guys in this and I find Shatner's reading of the preamble more of a criticism of the U.S. than a "Americaaa. FUCK! YEAH!" moment.

That which you call Ee'd Plebnista was not written for the chiefs or the kings or the warriors or the rich and powerful, but for all the people! Down the centuries, you have slurred the meaning of the words, 'We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution.' These words and the words that follow were not written only for the Yangs, but for the Kohms as well!

They must apply to everyone or they mean nothing! Do you understand?

Roddenberry (who has story and screenplay credit) wasn't exactly an "Americaaa. FUCK! YEAH!" kind of guy.

YMMV.