If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Recast

[Ryan8bit]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

^ Thanks!

I think the biggest issues with these movies is that they are built a lot on the expectations of common Star Trek fans. They expect Kirk to be captain because that's what he was before, so the creators rush him into being captain. They expect Kirk and Spock to be friends because we knew them to be so, despite no real inkling of this. The writers want characters to get from A to E, without B, C, and D.

I'd say this is a valid criticism. Reminds me of how studio told ENT producers they couldn't start with first season on Earth, building up to launch. "What the fans expect to see" is a valid argument, but so is "The journey there is half the fun."

I don't know if this has been polled before, but I wonder how many Trek fans would really be happy with NuTrek movies in which Kirk and Spock were only middle-rankers?

And as far as criticism, it's pretty mild because what are we supposed to expect from such a movie? That they're remaking Star Trek only to not refer to these things? The middle-rankers like you say? That wouldn't fly for a movie, even though I'd probably dig the hell out of it. The part in STID where Pike said he was gonna be captain and Kirk the first officer made me so intrigued, even though I knew it wasn't going to last. I think partly because Greenwood is awesome, but also because it presented a different dynamic. Kirk and Spock are great and all, but we've kinda been there, done that. Doubly so for a "nuTNG." But I think it's best to accept that this is where the franchise is now. They're looking to capitalize on what came before, not to really shake things up or innovate too much. The possibilities aren't really as open as the OP alluded to.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Lol, "Trek fans" have been unhappy with all new Trek since the animated series.

A tiny fraction, the majority enjoyed each new version enough to both watch it and engage in spirited discussion of it.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

^ Thanks!

I think the biggest issues with these movies is that they are built a lot on the expectations of common Star Trek fans. They expect Kirk to be captain because that's what he was before, so the creators rush him into being captain. They expect Kirk and Spock to be friends because we knew them to be so, despite no real inkling of this. The writers want characters to get from A to E, without B, C, and D.

I'd say this is a valid criticism. Reminds me of how studio told ENT producers they couldn't start with first season on Earth, building up to launch. "What the fans expect to see" is a valid argument, but so is "The journey there is half the fun."

I don't know if this has been polled before, but I wonder how many Trek fans would really be happy with NuTrek movies in which Kirk and Spock were only middle-rankers?

And as far as criticism, it's pretty mild because what are we supposed to expect from such a movie? That they're remaking Star Trek only to not refer to these things? The middle-rankers like you say? That wouldn't fly for a movie, even though I'd probably dig the hell out of it. The part in STID where Pike said he was gonna be captain and Kirk the first officer made me so intrigued, even though I knew it wasn't going to last. I think partly because Greenwood is awesome, but also because it presented a different dynamic. Kirk and Spock are great and all, but we've kinda been there, done that. Doubly so for a "nuTNG." But I think it's best to accept that this is where the franchise is now. They're looking to capitalize on what came before, not to really shake things up or innovate too much. The possibilities aren't really as open as the OP alluded to.

I agree that it is a valid criticism, but one that hits pretty close to the mark. Audience expectations, especially with Trek, are still a factor that have to be considered. All part of the business of filmmaing. I just wish they would shake things up a little more, but, as you said, they are moving towards audience expectations of Kirk and Spock.

And I'm with you that I wish for a series with Pike as captain and Kirk as first officer. Greenwood is fantastic as Pike and a series with him would be a must watch for me!

 

[eyeresist]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

And I'm with you that I wish for a series with Pike as captain and Kirk as first officer. Greenwood is fantastic as Pike and a series with him would be a must watch for me!

I was thinking a bit more about this. If I may evoke the shade of Nick Meyer, I haven't read the Hornblower books but I've seen most of the BBC series, and in fact for most of it he was a minor officer serving under another captain. But there's no doubt that he is the main character. So it could work.

It's funny how many fans are saying "I would love to see it in a movie, but the mass audience wouldn't." If it was done well, I think it would fly.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

It's hard to say what the mass audience really wants vs. what the studio thinks they want. Studios don't typically make sequel/reboot movies that deviate that much from perceived audience expectations. It would be unlikely for them to focus that much on Pike in a movie. TV would probably be better for that.

And even with the Trek TV shows, the Captain has always been the top dog in terms of focus. It would be interesting to see a shift there, but for me I think it would be nice to see someone like Kirk or Picard actually make their way up the ranks instead of just putting them back in the positions we've seen them in before. I think more than anything, that was my issue with Kirk's promotion. It's not that it was super unrealistic, but because he's not really given that time to develop. On the other hand, I think it makes for a potentially interesting story to show he's not ready. I'm guessing there won't be any of that doubt in Beyond though.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

It's hard to say what the mass audience really wants vs. what the studio thinks they want. Studios don't typically make sequel/reboot movies that deviate that much from perceived audience expectations. It would be unlikely for them to focus that much on Pike in a movie. TV would probably be better for that.

And even with the Trek TV shows, the Captain has always been the top dog in terms of focus. It would be interesting to see a shift there, but for me I think it would be nice to see someone like Kirk or Picard actually make their way up the ranks instead of just putting them back in the positions we've seen them in before. I think more than anything, that was my issue with Kirk's promotion. It's not that it was super unrealistic, but because he's not really given that time to develop. On the other hand, I think it makes for a potentially interesting story to show he's not ready. I'm guessing there won't be any of that doubt in Beyond though.

That would be an interesting take, I certainly agree. Many SF novels have had the main character not take on the role of captain for a majority of the work, or end up in command but not feeling ready for it.

I agree that Kirk's promotion could have been handled better, and the concept of having him in the chair, but then Pike come in and take command, and telling him, "Some day," would be a fun moment, at least for me.

As for the studios, they are also hesitant to change something, less they lose the audience and the audience doesn't come back.

 

[xortex]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

They should take another shot at Enterprise and the beginnings of Trek with a big threat to Earth.

 

[Dukhat]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

They should take another shot at Enterprise and the beginnings of Trek with a big threat to Earth.

Enterprise, as in the series Star Trek: Enterprise? Sorry, that's not going to happen.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

They should take another shot at Enterprise and the beginnings of Trek with a big threat to Earth.

If you mean re-activating the last series, either as another show or a movie, I would say no. However trying again in a pre-TOS time period would be a possibility I would be interested in watching.

I don't know if this has been polled before, but I wonder how many Trek fans would really be happy with NuTrek movies in which Kirk and Spock were only middle-rankers?

While there are TV shows and movies that do so, most shows don't revolve around "the bosses." Whether it's business or military or otherwise it's usually people in the lower or middle positions that are the focus. I recently rewatched the movie "Top Gun," the focus was on lieutenants, the upper level command people were support characters. The show Space Above and Beyond the same thing, the captain of the featured starship was only occasionally seen.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

They should take another shot at Enterprise and the beginnings of Trek with a big threat to Earth.

If you mean re-activating the last series, either as another show or a movie, I would say no. However trying again in a pre-TOS time period would be a possibility I would be interested in watching.

I don't know if this has been polled before, but I wonder how many Trek fans would really be happy with NuTrek movies in which Kirk and Spock were only middle-rankers?

While there are TV shows and movies that do so, most shows don't revolve around "the bosses." Whether it's business or military or otherwise it's usually people in the lower or middle positions that are the focus. I recently rewatched the movie "Top Gun," the focus was on lieutenants, the upper level command people were support characters. The show Space Above and Beyond the same thing, the captain of the featured starship was only occasionally seen.

Indeed. The insistence on focusing on the senior officers does not always occur in military fiction. My favorite show, J*A*G, focused on, at the beginning Lt. Rabb, investigating crimes. The commanding officer gave the mission, and that was about it (at first).

Also, I would support a show set before TOS. Just not a continuation of Enterprise.

 

[Tarek71]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Just wondering what peoples thoughts were on this. Some of the actors like Qunito have mentioned they will want to move on to other things. If some of the mains such as Quinto or Pine decide to not do anymore of these movies after the third I think there are a few possibilities.

The franchise will take another break,
We will see a recasting and a continuance of the current storyline.
A TNG reboot in the NuTrek universe.
A focus on a different starship and crew.
A new TV series with a different starship and crew set in the NuTrek Universe.
A return to the Prime Trek universe with a tv show showing events after TNG.
A return to Prime Trek TNG movies and we pick up with a much older Picard.


Any thoughts on this?

Impossible to say what would come next. The first new creative team in YEARS to be hired to take over Trek (JJ's) and the first thing they do is kill Kirks dad, Spocks mom, and blow up Romulus and Vulcan. Cleared the decks for their own storytelling.

Whoever is hired to replace JJ will probably also have their own vision and ideas about Star Trek and may want to have space to tell their own stories in their own way. So either a third timeline thats a reboot, or Prime/JJ timelines in such a way that they can be done in an open ended way. Post TNG in Primeverse is wide open. Same with the NuTOS era. Any prequel in the existing two timelines will likely have at least some timeline fudges and changes to open them up.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

For those that miss the old timeline you have 10 movies along with over 700 episodes available on DVD and digital media. That's far more content than most franchises have. Either get with the new timeline or stick to watching the old stuff.

Not to mention books upon books!

There's also a metric effton (that's an official designation) of novelverse stuff set in the 2380s and post-ENT and all sorts of other points. There is so much Primeverse.

Yeah, what you said

I think the biggest issues with these movies is that they are built a lot on the expectations of common Star Trek fans. They expect Kirk to be captain because that's what he was before, so the creators rush him into being captain. They expect Kirk and Spock to be friends because we knew them to be so, despite no real inkling of this. The writers want characters to get from A to E, without B, C, and D. And there are plenty of examples of this in just these two movies.

Agreed. Yes they played with a lot of it but bottom line, the creators were bending over backwards to put as much Trek into Trek as humanly possible. It's a shame there's a contingent of fans out there who didn't get the memo.

Whoever is hired to replace JJ will probably also have their own vision and ideas about Star Trek and may want to have space to tell their own stories in their own way.

This is important as well. Short of Rick Berman coming back and running the franchise again (which is, to put it mildly, LOL), any future Star Trek will no more resemble JJ-trek than TNG resembled TOS; in other words, some, but not entirely.

 

[eyeresist]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Impossible to say what would come next. The first new creative team in YEARS to be hired to take over Trek (JJ's) and the first thing they do is kill Kirks dad, Spocks mom, and blow up Romulus and Vulcan. Cleared the decks for their own storytelling.

Just to clarify, Romulus is still there. It doesn't blow up until after the Berman-verse.

 

[Tarek71]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Impossible to say what would come next. The first new creative team in YEARS to be hired to take over Trek (JJ's) and the first thing they do is kill Kirks dad, Spocks mom, and blow up Romulus and Vulcan. Cleared the decks for their own storytelling.

Just to clarify, Romulus is still there. It doesn't blow up until after the Berman-verse.

Indeed, Romulus in the "Prime" timeline is gone, but happened after Berman departed. But Primeverse existed both before and after Berman, so it is gone from the Prime timeline.

 

[eyeresist]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I think you misunderstand? I meant Romulus doesn't go until after the events that were shown in the Berman-produced series. It's still there in JJ-Trek.

 

[Tarek71]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I think you misunderstand? I meant Romulus doesn't go until after the events that were shown in the Berman-produced series. It's still there in JJ-Trek.

It sure is.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Yeah, Trek is for everyone.... not just the eggheads that somehow seem to associate even the slightest form of action/adventure with a lack of intellect. Pretentious pseudo-intellectuals annoy the fuck out of me about as much as the dumbass jocks, rednecks, preps, and girly girls who hated on sci-fi/space fantasy lovers back when sci-fi/space fantasy supposedly wasn't cool....largely because those pretentious pseudo-intellectuals don't seem to have learned a damn thing from those other folk. "Psst.... hey, how about we Star Trek eggheads take total possession of Trek, and make fun of anyone who likes Star Wars, or anything that puts action into Star Trek? Now we can act like we're superior, and bully everyone else!"

"Pew pew pew" = lack of intellect for both storytellers and those who enjoy the stories? "Fweeeee fweeeee" isn't much better.

Great lessons learned there, fanboys and fangirls. Keep it up!

Learn to share, or go back to your parents' basements.

Late to this conversation - but if you and I were in the same room, martok2112, I think I would have to kiss you for this post!

 

[martok2112]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Yeah, Trek is for everyone.... not just the eggheads that somehow seem to associate even the slightest form of action/adventure with a lack of intellect. Pretentious pseudo-intellectuals annoy the fuck out of me about as much as the dumbass jocks, rednecks, preps, and girly girls who hated on sci-fi/space fantasy lovers back when sci-fi/space fantasy supposedly wasn't cool....largely because those pretentious pseudo-intellectuals don't seem to have learned a damn thing from those other folk. "Psst.... hey, how about we Star Trek eggheads take total possession of Trek, and make fun of anyone who likes Star Wars, or anything that puts action into Star Trek? Now we can act like we're superior, and bully everyone else!"

"Pew pew pew" = lack of intellect for both storytellers and those who enjoy the stories? "Fweeeee fweeeee" isn't much better.

Great lessons learned there, fanboys and fangirls. Keep it up!

Learn to share, or go back to your parents' basements.

Late to this conversation - but if you and I were in the same room, martok2112, I think I would have to kiss you for this post!

 

[Ghost]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Yeah, Trek is for everyone.... not just the eggheads that somehow seem to associate even the slightest form of action/adventure with a lack of intellect. Pretentious pseudo-intellectuals annoy the fuck out of me about as much as the dumbass jocks, rednecks, preps, and girly girls who hated on sci-fi/space fantasy lovers back when sci-fi/space fantasy supposedly wasn't cool....largely because those pretentious pseudo-intellectuals don't seem to have learned a damn thing from those other folk. "Psst.... hey, how about we Star Trek eggheads take total possession of Trek, and make fun of anyone who likes Star Wars, or anything that puts action into Star Trek? Now we can act like we're superior, and bully everyone else!"

"Pew pew pew" = lack of intellect for both storytellers and those who enjoy the stories? "Fweeeee fweeeee" isn't much better.

Great lessons learned there, fanboys and fangirls. Keep it up!

Learn to share, or go back to your parents' basements.

I think Star Trek is at its best when it entertains and is smart, making even the regular watcher pause for a moment and give a new concept or idea some thought.

 

[martok2112]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Yeah, Trek is for everyone.... not just the eggheads that somehow seem to associate even the slightest form of action/adventure with a lack of intellect. Pretentious pseudo-intellectuals annoy the fuck out of me about as much as the dumbass jocks, rednecks, preps, and girly girls who hated on sci-fi/space fantasy lovers back when sci-fi/space fantasy supposedly wasn't cool....largely because those pretentious pseudo-intellectuals don't seem to have learned a damn thing from those other folk. "Psst.... hey, how about we Star Trek eggheads take total possession of Trek, and make fun of anyone who likes Star Wars, or anything that puts action into Star Trek? Now we can act like we're superior, and bully everyone else!"

"Pew pew pew" = lack of intellect for both storytellers and those who enjoy the stories? "Fweeeee fweeeee" isn't much better.

Great lessons learned there, fanboys and fangirls. Keep it up!

Learn to share, or go back to your parents' basements.

I think Star Trek is at its best when it entertains and is smart, making even the regular watcher pause for a moment and give a new concept or idea some thought.

I will agree. I know Star Trek is not supposed to be Star Wars, but when the action is good, it's really good.

However, among my favorite Star Trek is "City on the Edge of Forever", "Far Beyond the Stars", "Inner Light", "Chain of Command".

Also, there is an episode of Voyager where Tuvok betrays Janeway's trust for the greater needs of the crew....taking a piece of technology that was forbidden to them by the planet they were dealing with, and that Janeway supported that forbiddance (I just made that word up...lol). Anyway, Tuvok confesses his complicity and authority over the plan that betrays Janeway's trust in him. To me, it was one of her finest moments of acting in that show...because she so straddled the emotional line between being authoritatively angered with Tuvok, and wanting to cry at the personal strife that his actions caused her. It was a beautifully acted piece that remains one of my favorite scenes in all of Star Trek. That scene nearly moved me to tears.