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If someone started an online Federation

Would you Join the Federation


  • Total voters
    3
  • Poll closed .

Maccyj571086

Ensign
Red Shirt
My question is if someone started an online Federation with the organisations operated within it Starfleet etc, with the aim of eventually turning it into a real organisation, almost like Asgardia the space nation, would you join and if you did what would you want out of it ?
 
Well I ask as it got me thinking, we're now at a point where we setup communities online (Asgardia) being an online community which is internationally recogonised, they are setting up the society for real, it's got over one million members, surely something like this would be possible for the Federation where you start online then progress over time, I'm not talking about having all the tech that Star Trek has but as we've found with time and inspiration nearly anything is possible, it's just a thought.
 
An amataeur international organization dedicated to exploring space? Sure. You have choices

United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs, UNOOSA: Probably the closest thing we have to a Starfleet, except they don't actually have a fleet nor have launch capability nor to my knowledge have ever sent anything significant into space. Also you can't join then, though I suppose you could work for them.

Planetary Society

Space Studies Institute

The Mars Society

The Artemis Project

JP Aerospace


These are all pretty specific organizations that have their specific aims.

Planetary Society is probably the most dedicated to exploration. They've done tremendous work on planetary exploration and solar sail propulsion.

SSI is an old organization supporting O'Neillian plan to settle space and utilize the resources to move out further. They're not afraid to test breakthrough ideas to accomplish it.

Mars Society and Artemis society are both proponents of Mars and Moon settlement, respectively. I don't know much about them so I can't say much about them.

JP Aerospace: you've may never have heard of them, and yet they send experiments to the edge of space on extreme high altitude balloon platforms regularly for students and researchers, all voluntary. If there was a group building Cochraine's warp ship in a post nuclear holocaust ready to shake hands with Vulcans, odds are there'd be some JP Aerospace volunteers around. They are slowly but surely working towards building a stratospheric station, and from then they plan to have an airship (yep) capable of reaching orbit.


 
My question is if someone started an online Federation with the organisations operated within it Starfleet etc, with the aim of eventually turning it into a real organisation, almost like Asgardia the space nation, would you join and if you did what would you want out of it ?
No, because Asgardia turned out to be shit, and it's easy to do things online rather than in real meatspace, where much of the heavy lifting would have to be done. It would fall apart from people wanting higher positions, and then wanting to be paid for their time. Look, I want a moneyless, classless society, but in our current environment people need to get paid so they can eat. An online organization would not have the means to address those issues satisfactorily.
 
No, because Asgardia turned out to be shit, and it's easy to do things online rather than in real meatspace, where much of the heavy lifting would have to be done. It would fall apart from people wanting higher positions, and then wanting to be paid for their time. Look, I want a moneyless, classless society, but in our current environment people need to get paid so they can eat. An online organization would not have the means to address those issues satisfactorily.
I think your right in many ways, because you couldn't setup a system which would be completely independant from all of the other systems we currently have in place, they'd need to have a way to create the products/food that are required by the individuals within the organisation. You'd also have to contend with everyones conception that more money =buy more things = better life etc, which I think you can change given time, but if you were to setup a Federation now what would be your steps/approach ?, what are all of the challenges you would face ?, if you could join and do as little or as much as you wanted to be involved would you join ? obviously it would be an add on to your current existance and may or may not develop into a proper society but that depends on volounteers etc until it could become a proper entity.
 
I think your right in many ways, because you couldn't setup a system which would be completely independant from all of the other systems we currently have in place, they'd need to have a way to create the products/food that are required by the individuals within the organisation. You'd also have to contend with everyones conception that more money =buy more things = better life etc, which I think you can change given time, but if you were to setup a Federation now what would be your steps/approach ?, what are all of the challenges you would face ?, if you could join and do as little or as much as you wanted to be involved would you join ? obviously it would be an add on to your current existance and may or may not develop into a proper society but that depends on volounteers etc until it could become a proper entity.

I'm not sure if you are promoting a micronation or a world federal government. I will state that I think eventually, a world federal government will happen. And it will happen more as a natural evolution of technology, attitudes, respect for cultural diversity while understanding the need for mutual security and universal base standard of living. It's a concept very important to me, actually, but i do not think it is one that will come from people wanting to play virtual UN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Federalist_Movement
 
I'm not sure if you are promoting a micronation or a world federal government. I will state that I think eventually, a world federal government will happen. And it will happen more as a natural evolution of technology, attitudes, respect for cultural diversity while understanding the need for mutual security and universal base standard of living. It's a concept very important to me, actually, but i do not think it is one that will come from people wanting to play virtual UN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Federalist_Movement
I hope you are right, but regarding to the Federation idea, I think if it was going to be acheived it would have to start very small ie online then move into as Amaris said 'Meatspace' so micronation working out all the issues and then scaling up so to speak, realise this is all theory as you'd have to have people buy into the concept and volounteer time to it to begin with before you could do anything.
 
I hope you are right, but regarding to the Federation idea, I think if it was going to be acheived it would have to start very small ie online then move into as Amaris said 'Meatspace' so micronation working out all the issues and then scaling up so to speak, realise this is all theory as you'd have to have people buy into the concept and volounteer time to it to begin with before you could do anything.
A world federation, by its nature, cannot start small. A movement to promote such a thing can, but the thing itself, no.
 
I think your right in many ways, because you couldn't setup a system which would be completely independant from all of the other systems we currently have in place, they'd need to have a way to create the products/food that are required by the individuals within the organisation. You'd also have to contend with everyones conception that more money =buy more things = better life etc, which I think you can change given time, but if you were to setup a Federation now what would be your steps/approach ?, what are all of the challenges you would face ?, if you could join and do as little or as much as you wanted to be involved would you join ? obviously it would be an add on to your current existance and may or may not develop into a proper society but that depends on volounteers etc until it could become a proper entity.
Well, yeah, that's why I figured it wouldn't work in our current eco and social climate. It has been shown that, in history, any time a revolution comes and people are finally free of class distinctions, they are prone to failure from outside influence. Catalonia, for example, was an anarcho-communist state that had great potential, but it only managed a scant 3 years before other nations took them down. They were just too small, and too new to hold their ground against powerful forces that wanted the whole idea of a socialist nation crushed into oblivion. I think it would take a massive shift in our outlook. In Gene Roddenberry's idea of a utopian future, the earth had to endure a near literal hell, with billions of people dying AND the discovery of sentient life outside our solar system before humanity realized that it better shape itself up and learn how to deal, because they weren't alone.

I don't think we have to go that far, but steps towards a better system could be implemented to help us on the way. Some days I lose hope because it seems like even basic human rights are seen as too pie in the sky to push for, but I think the best thing to remember is that human beings work best with small steps, even though you know in your head that people need something better now, today. I don't know, I think I'm ranting a bit, so sorry for that.
 
A lot of real life attempts at micro-communes have failed because fundamentally, nobody quite exactly agrees what it's supposed to be and what the limitations should be.

If it was designed more like a co-op that doesn't have any hard economic contracts, and was some kind of online shared marketplace and goodwill exchange, it could be interesting.
 
There's a commune about two hours down the road from me that's currently doing well in it's 3rd generation (some 4th , I gather) descended from hippies with children who were around Haight Ashbury at the peak of the movement and saw drugs fucking things up. They pooled their resources, bought cheap land across the country, loaded up some barely running school busses and somehow learned to make it work. It survives now by offering classes to outsiders on the lessons they learned like construction, midwifery, etc.

I gather it DOES work because they had a code and rules to live by, or it would have failed like so many of those ideas. It being a reaction to a failed utopia might be why it did better. I don't know.

But a worldwide federation has to involve, you know, most of the world deciding that it's a good idea, and the only way I can see that happening is by facing what will happen if they don't. The UN is a tiny step in the correct direction, albeit an extremely flawed one, and it in turn exists because of the failures of the League of Nations to prevent world war or travesties like the invasion of Ethiopia.
 
My mother lives in a coop housing organization with shared resources, but everyone still owns their own house and has freedom what parts of the community to participate in and which not to. And they are of course free to leave.

Which is kind of the requirement for it working. Enough space for individual differences and different ideas, and freedom to leave.

Which is one of the reasons national and global ones don’t work, you lose freedom to leave, and a few powerful people end up suppressing those individual differences and your own home being a space for individual freedoms.

But some kind of optional online community resource pool and support network, why not?
 
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