If Picard dies in Best of Both Worlds

[Tim Thomason]

TNG Season 4:
4x01 - "Best of Both Worlds" - Captain Riker defeats the Borg threat; Picard dies
4x02 - "Second Chances" - The crew run across a transporter duplicate of Riker nicknamed Tom Riker.
4x03 - "Family" - Tom and Will visit their family home in Alaska. Will has a nervous breakdown and resigns his commission. Elizabeth Shelby is the first female Captain of the Enterprise, Data her first officer, and Lt. Commander Tom Riker is assigned as Operations Officer.

Frakes is a bit peeved. QPid is never written (Q runs into the Enterprise again in True Q). We're debating to this day whether Will Riker counts as an official Star Trek Captain, along with the big six (Kirk, Picard, Shelby, Sisko, Janeway, Archer).

Will Riker later defects to the Maquis and impersonates Tom in the DS9 episode Defiant. "The Perfect Mate", starring Famke Janssen, becomes quite the groundbreaking episode.

 

[Mage]

I think that as a show, it could have survived without Stewart, but I agree that Frakes is just not good enough to carry the show as the lead. I could see them shaking things up with not only a new captain (Riker resigns after having to kill Picard as Locutus) Shelby remaining as well. Shelby is allowed to remain on the ship, but they feel she needs tempering as a commanding officer, so becomes the new second officer with Data as the new first officer and a new captain.

 

[locutus101]

^ Assuming BOBW would have been written the same way (except with Picard dying at the end), I don't see how the writers could credibly walk back from Riker's captaincy. I mean, he's a hero. He lead the Enterprise to a single-handed victory over the Borg. It was his plan to recover Locutus and try to use him as a backdoor into the Borg collective consciousness. He succeeded where an entire fleet failed and saved Earth (and most likely the entire Federation).

Can you imagine the conversation after?

"Well, you saved everybody's bacon down here at Command, Wil. You managed to survive three engagements with the Borg, and destroyed them on the third. Wow! Almost any other officer would have been killed or assimilated after one encounter. We're still geeking out over your tactics during Picard's rescue.... But all that notwithstanding, we just don't feel you're ready to captain the Enterprise. You don't have the judgement or the experience or the literary chops necessary to argue Shakespeare with Q... So we decided to bring in Edward Jellico. Do a few tours under him, and maybe we'll hook you up with one of the new Mirandas being built to shore up the fleet. Sorry, bud."

That's exactly what Nechayev does in Chain Of Command, though.

 

[Shikarnov]

That's exactly what Nechayev does in Chain Of Command, though.

Not exactly. Jellico was brought in due to his having a specialized skillset to deal with the Cardassians -- both to prevent a war if he could (and, ultimately, did), or to fight one if required. In either case, he was the situational expert, and that's why he got command of the flagship. It's notable that, once the crisis ended, he was off to his next assignment (probably another trouble spot along the border); which I think would have been the case even if Picard didn't return from his mission.

 

[locutus101]

Not exactly. Jellico was brought in due to his having a specialized skillset to deal with the Cardassians -- both to prevent a war if he could (and, ultimately, did), or to fight one if required. In either case, he was the situational expert, and that's why he got command of the flagship. It's notable that, once the crisis ended, he was off to his next assignment (probably another trouble spot along the border); which I think would have been the case even if Picard didn't return from his mission.

You're ignoring the hint we got from the episode, from Riker himself: "They don't usually go through the ceremony if it's just a temporary assignment."

I think Nechayev was planning to make it permanent if Picard hadn't returned from his mission, which seemed a likely outcome.

I think that's what pissed Riker off, more than anything else.

 

[Mojochi]

I doubt it. I even doubt it would ever have been a consideration. By season 3, the show owed most of its success to Stewart & Spiner. When the episode aired, I never even truly entertained that notion. I thought instead it might have been a prelude to promoting Riker out of the show, what with all that talk from Shelby & Hanson, and even Picard & Riker himself in the B-plot.

Even at the the end of part 2, Picard refers to him as a former 1st officer, which was clearly meant as a double entendre, because Picard wasn't the captain at the time, & Riker should, in all probability, not be a 1st officer any more. "Pick of the Fleet" was even batted out there by Shelby. I was disappointed when it all just got washed away the next week

In hindsight, it's clear that the writer was on his way out the door at the end of season 3 & threw a couple real zingers in there, that the new folks just wanted to bypass

 

[Shikarnov]

You're ignoring the hint we got from the episode, from Riker himself: "They don't usually go through the ceremony if it's just a temporary assignment."

I think Nechayev was planning to make it permanent if Picard hadn't returned from his mission, which seemed a likely outcome.

I think that's what pissed Riker off, more than anything else.

I did ignore that; mainly because I thought of it as some kind of intelligence gamesmanship to bolster Jellico's credibility as the "real" captain of the Enterprise, insofar as the Cardassians (and any spies they might have had aboard) were concerned, and to show that Starfleet is serious by adjusting "troop deployments" and putting their most powerful players in the most powerful positions.

 

[locutus101]

I doubt it. I even doubt it would ever have been a consideration. By season 3, the show owed most of its success to Stewart & Spiner. When the episode aired, I never even truly entertained that notion. I thought instead it might have been a prelude to promoting Riker out of the show, what with all that talk from Shelby & Hanson, and even Picard & Riker himself in the B-plot.

Even at the the end of part 2, Picard refers to him as a former 1st officer, which was clearly meant as a double entendre, because Picard wasn't the captain at the time, & Riker should, in all probability, not be a 1st officer any more. "Pick of the Fleet" was even batted out there by Shelby. I was disappointed when it all just got washed away the next week

In hindsight, it's clear that the writer was on his way out the door at the end of season 3 & threw a couple real zingers in there, that the new folks just wanted to bypass

But I heard that Stewart leaving the show was a real possiblity, well, maybe it was just tactical on his part, but they had to take that into account, and that's why they ended part 1 on something that could have gone either way.

 

[locutus101]

I did ignore that; mainly because I thought of it as some kind of intelligence gamesmanship to bolster Jellico's credibility as the "real" captain of the Enterprise, insofar as the Cardassians (and any spies they might have had aboard) were concerned, and to show that Starfleet is serious by adjusting "troop deployments" and putting their most powerful players in the most powerful positions.

That's possible or it could just be as I said that Nechayev didn't like Riker. The way she addressed him made it clear to me and didn't mind having him stay as first officer and even leave the ship if Picard wasn't coming back from his mission. Jellico's assessment of the mission was very realistic, Btw. Even if they had managed to destroy the supposed weapons of mass destruction, I don't see how they could have left the planet afterward. Seems almost miraculous that Beverly and worf did. It must have been because the cardassians really wanted Picard and had no use for anyone else.

 

[Scotchy]

Captain Riker would have done just fine in my opinion. Parallels showed only one Riker reality gone horribly wrong. It seemed like in a lot of the realities Picard did die and Riker did just fine. I think Frakes had the acting chops to get it done if given the chance. That being said he is certainly no Patrick Stewart, he would've taken the Captain role in a different direction.
The change I would have objected to would be Shelby as First Officer. I think Data or Worf would've been good choices for that role.

 

[locutus101]

Captain Riker would have done just fine in my opinion. Parallels showed only one Riker reality gone horribly wrong. It seemed like in a lot of the realities Picard did die and Riker did just fine. I think Frakes had the acting chops to get it done if given the chance. That being said he is certainly no Patrick Stewart, he would've taken the Captain role in a different direction.
The change I would have objected to would be Shelby as First Officer. I think Data or Worf would've been good choices for that role.

You're right, I am not sure if Shelby would have been a good recurring character. She was too career driven, too single-minded. We need people who are more complex.

 

[Shikarnov]

^ I like that about her. She would have brought a perspective that's unique to the Star Trek universe. Our hero crews are just so complacent. Everybody sits around doing the same thing year after year after year without any evidence that they have even the slightest interest in advancement. Shelby's drive to take risks, to stand out, to move forward -- that's the good stuff. It's ripe fruit for the picking, enabling stories of both incredible heroism and destructive hubris. And as a CO, I'd love to see how she pushes the crew under her command, challenging them to do more, compelling them to operate outside their comfort zone. I think she'd be a fantastic mentor for the junior officers -- like we see in Lower Decks -- riding them hard and training them well, grooming them for stellar careers and tempering herself as a leader.

PS: Seems like you and I are on opposite sides of this conversation in every case. But that's what makes it fun.

 

[locutus101]

^ I like that about her. She would have brought a perspective that's unique to the Star Trek universe. Our hero crews are just so complacent. Everybody sits around doing the same thing year after year after year without any evidence that they have even the slightest interest in advancement. Shelby's drive to take risks, to stand out, to move forward -- that's the good stuff. It's ripe fruit for the picking, enabling stories of both incredible heroism and destructive hubris. And as a CO, I'd love to see how she pushes the crew under her command, challenging them to do more, compelling them to operate outside their comfort zone. I think she'd be a fantastic mentor for the junior officers -- like we see in Lower Decks -- riding them hard and training them well, grooming them for stellar careers and tempering herself as a leader.

PS: Seems like you and I are on opposite sides of this conversation in every case. But that's what makes it fun.

You know what would make it perfect? If she took Worf's brother Kurn as first officer!

 

[tomalak301]

I would have been very interested in the Riker/Shelby dynamic. However if Stewart has left, I don't think the show would have been as memorable.

 

[locutus101]

I would have been very interested in the Riker/Shelby dynamic. However if Stewart has left, I don't think the show would have been as memorable.

Stewart or no Stewart,the first season was pretty awful. You need good stories first and foremost.

 

[tomalak301]

Stewart or no Stewart,the first season was pretty awful. You need good stories first and foremost.

We're not talking about season 1 though. This would be season 4, which was TNG's prime.

 

[locutus101]

We're not talking about season 1 though. This would be season 4, which was TNG's prime.

I think it could have been good even without Stewart.

 

[Commander Salad]

It would not have been as good but it would have survived, particularly if they also kept Lt. Cmdr Shelby.

 

[Scotchy]

Everybody sits around doing the same thing year after year after year without any evidence that they have even the slightest interest in advancement.

Not necessarily. Even Troi worked to get a promotion so she could be a bridge officer (which I thought was a travesty - she outranks Data now?!) The character that got screwed the most on promotions was Data, hands down. He should easily have been a Captain or higher at the end of 7 years. He even pointed out that Starfleet wasn't allowing him to even try to advance in Redemption, when Picard didn't assign him a command.
The characters did stray out of their comfort zone at times (like the secret mission Picard, Crusher and Worf went on in Chain of Command), but more frequent personnel changes would have made more sense. Someone gets promoted and a newbie or transfer takes their place. It could have kept the show fresh, like the cast changes on Law & Order.
I guess Shelby is a matter of individual taste and opinion. In my view, Riker could've done way better than her for a First Officer. From the way things looked in Parallels, the Shelby/First Officer outcome was rare. Most realities seemed to feature Worf or Data as First Officer, which is the direction I would have gone in.

 

[lordsofelsewhen]

Edard james olmos as Captain sanchez?