I thought it would be fun to read how debate on issues ST09 brings to the table would play out if Countdown were considered Canon & totally relevant to the discussions.
Anyone game?
Anyone game?
If Countdown were Canon
- Thread starter shapeshifter
- Start date
I liked Countdown, particulary the shaved-head/tattoo backstory - but I don't think it makes much difference to STXI itself.
And we don't find out how Data returned until the novel The Needs of the Many
.
And we don't find out how Data returned until the novel The Needs of the Many
.
Unfortunately that backstory is contradicted in the movie itself. The comic stated that the crew shaved their heads and got the tattoos as a symbol of mourning after Romulus was destroyed. However, in the movie it is clearly shown that Nero's wife was tattooed as well, so obviously the tatooing doesn't mean what the comic writers thought it meant. Also, Nero's female crewmembers still had their hair, so either the head-shaving thing also was wrong, or the females just didn't participate. Furthermore, didn't the Jellyfish and the Narada get sucked into the past pretty much right after Romulus was destroyed and Spock fired the red matter into the supernova? When would Nero's crew have had time to shave their heads and get tattoos?
Plus get the Narada outfitted with Borg technology and for Nero to assassinate the Preator.
Exactly. The comic made it appear as if a lot of time passed between Romulus's destruction and Spock firing the red matter into the supernova, when the movie implied that it happened simultaneously.
I liked Countdown, particulary the shaved-head/tattoo backstory - but I don't think it makes much difference to STXI itself.
And we don't find out how Data returned until the novel The Needs of the Many
Which chapter is that? I made it to the chapter where Jake interviews Vic Fontaine and just gave up. It was so dull...
The movie did not establish a precise timing for events.
That's why I said "implied." But AFAIAC, it happened simultaneously.
This is the way I've always read it as well...
For Nero to do everything in Countdown, Spock would've had to hang around the remnants of the Hobus Supernova a really long time (days/weeks).
Dukhat said:
It depends how much you sweat the details - TV and film Trek is rife with little and large contradictions, retcons and mistakes. Why hold the tie-ins to a higher standard? Besides, in the case of the female Romulan with dreads, there's nothing to say Nero forced his whole crew to do it.
One of the later ones. Whatever you do, skip the Gorn/baseball chapter. It makes the Vic Fontane and Junior Picard chapters look like high art.BillJ said:
Dukhat said:
Although Countdown rearranges events as well as alter the timing, the way I see it, it was an ultra-quick recap not unlike the ones at the start of multi part episodes. Those have done similar over the years to get the point across ASAP.
I know that, but I'm not really buying that, though. This comic was created at the same time that the movie was, its purpose being a prequel of the film's events. It's not like a prequel show made in the 2000's that contradicts a show from the '60s. This was just sloppy supposition; that, or the writers and artists hadn't actually seen the film before creating the backstory, which is also sloppy.
Why would Nero force anyone to do it? And why would the females NOT do it, if it was supposed to be a symbol of greiving that they just lost their entire planet?
Well, the mourning ritual is supposed to involve paint and not tattooes. Nero and his band of thugs were making a statement, they weren't making a uniform - so any excuse could be made for why she looks different. Everyone wore different tattooes in different degrees and different patterns. So what if a few chose to keep their hair? It could mean anything - she might not have personally lost any loved ones on Romulus, for example. As we see in Countdown, at least one female member of his crew does shave her head. So what if we didn't see her in the movie? She could have been just off screen, like the bumpy-headed Klingons supposedly were prior to TMP, the Remans prior to Nemesis or the various Federation aliens we saw in TMP, STIV and STXI but not TOS.
Countdown was co-written by the writers of STXI themselves. Are the contradictions between it and STXI it sloppy writing, or them taking a few liberties with their own creation in order to tell a better story?
Countdown was co-written by the writers of STXI themselves. Are the contradictions between it and STXI it sloppy writing, or them taking a few liberties with their own creation in order to tell a better story?
That would be awful. I didn't like one bit of it. It was pure fanwank and cluttered with all the things that made the TNG movies worse and worse. The characters ended up in positions that make not much sense in my opinion.
I especially like the bit where Starfleet members and two Federation ambassadors have to beg the Vulcan Science Council to give them something that could save the Romulan Empire, and they deny it. They are just one of 160 Federation members, and make a decision affecting the entire galaxy based on their racism against the Romulans. That's really not the Vulcan's sole decision to make!
I especially like the bit where Starfleet members and two Federation ambassadors have to beg the Vulcan Science Council to give them something that could save the Romulan Empire, and they deny it. They are just one of 160 Federation members, and make a decision affecting the entire galaxy based on their racism against the Romulans. That's really not the Vulcan's sole decision to make!
OK, that was an epic fail.
How about we change the topic to be about the comic series, NERO.
From Memory Beta
Sounds like a pretty integral chapter of the overall story. Do you believe it adequately filled the gap of 25 years missing from the movie?
How about we change the topic to be about the comic series, NERO.
From Memory Beta
Sounds like a pretty integral chapter of the overall story. Do you believe it adequately filled the gap of 25 years missing from the movie?
Now, I'm a die-hard fan of Treklit. I've got hundreds of novels and the comic collection DVD - but I've got to say that Nero merging with V'Ger is one of the stupidest things to happen in the history of the franchise.
Nero's capture, time in jail and breakout were all fine. I liked the shady former Starfleet cartographer, but... oh god... what were they thinking? Flying to the Delta Quandrant and merging with V'Ger??
Why, IDW? Why have you done this to my Star Trek?
Nero's capture, time in jail and breakout were all fine. I liked the shady former Starfleet cartographer, but... oh god... what were they thinking? Flying to the Delta Quandrant and merging with V'Ger??
Why, IDW? Why have you done this to my Star Trek?
Ooh, I could almost hear the sound of your childhood being raped. Sorry about that. With therapy though, you'll be fine.
Yeah, pretty fannish alright. Makes some of my ideas seem sensible by comparison.
Yeah, pretty fannish alright. Makes some of my ideas seem sensible by comparison.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
They should have tracked down the Doomsday Machine and had it destroy Vulcan insteaad. That would have been really kewl! And they should have used the Talosians to show how they destroyed all the ships at Vulcan. They captured one and used a Ceti Eel to control him. That would have been excellent! Don't you know an homage when you see one? 
Chick_McGeester
Lieutenant
Its not really YOUR "Star Trek". Its just Star Trek.
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