If a Ninth Planet is discovered in the Outer Solar System, should it be called Hercules?

[Joey P - the official]

Start by reinstating poor Pluto to Planet 9, then we can discuss the possibility of a tenth planet in the Solar System.

Yeah, I'm fine with Pluto not a planet.

In 2017, a Mars-sized planet responsible for the Kuiper Cliff was hypothesized to orbit the Sun 60 astronomical units away. However, despite people hailing it as a "tenth planet", even Michael E. Brown would call it a dwarf planet because it hasn't been able to clear its neighborhood. I originally suggested the name Minerva for this dwarf planet but it's taken by asteroid #93 which has two moons.

 

[Joey P - the official]

But Planet Nine is definitely a planet. It's expected to be far more massive than Earth and in the process of clearing its neighborhood.

 

[oberth]

But Persephone and Arnold are definitely planets. They're both expected to be far more massive than Earth and in the process of clearing their neighborhood.

399 persephone a planet?

 

[Mytran]

Start by reinstating poor Pluto to Planet 9, then we can discuss the possibility of a tenth planet in the Solar System.

If we did that we'd also have to make Eris, Ceres, Haumea, Makemake and maybe even 2007OR10 as they meet the same criteria

 

[Tenacity]

/\ Grandfather it in, sentimental exception.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Start by reinstating poor Pluto to Planet 9, then we can discuss the possibility of a tenth planet in the Solar System.

Mondas would be the perfect name.

 

[Joey P - the official]

399 persephone a planet?

I was talking about the hypothetical Planet Nine. 399 Persephone is obviously an asteroid, not a planet. But we can all tell the difference between a gas giant and an asteroid, so we should definitely name Planet Nine Persephone.

If the IAU won't accept it, should we riot? After all, asteroid #38 and one of Jupiter's small retrograde moons are both named Leda after the exact same mythological character, and the latter is obviously a captured main-belt asteroid!

 

[Joey P - the official]

Mondas would be the perfect name.

Maybe we can name that claimed "Planet Ten" from 2017 Mondas. But it would be a dwarf planet even if it existed. Mike Brown said so.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

/\ Grandfather it in, sentimental exception.

Ok. Then we'll add Earth, Wind, Fire and Water to the Periodic Table. Sentimental exception, you know.

 

[Joey P - the official]

Ok. Then we'll add Earth, Wind, Fire and Water to the Periodic Table. Sentimental exception, you know.

If you really think about it:
Earth = Carbon (because carbon is the dominant element and the "organic" in organic compounds)
Air/Wind = Nitrogen (any volume of air contains approximately 78% nitrogen)
Fire = Oxygen (because oxygen is required for combustion)
Water = Hydrogen ("hydrogen" means "water-forming" and water molecules have two hydrogen atoms as opposed to one oxygen atom)

But anyway, let's not go off-topic:

• Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Nox/Hyperion are all planets.
• The Moon may be a planet because of its large size and mass ratio with the Earth.
• 1 Ceres, Pluto, Haumea, Makemake, and Eris are dwarf planets. Charon may be a dwarf planet for the same reason as the Moon possibly being a planet above.
• Any (hypothetical) planet the size of Earth or smaller in the Kuiper Belt is a dwarf planet because it has not been able to sufficiently clear its neighborhood, while a (hypothetical) planet larger than Earth is a planet. = or < Earth means it is not a planet, > Earth means it is a planet.

I also have a book written for children in the 1990s that refers to space probes like the Pioneer and Voyager ones as basically man-made planets, and I agree.

There's also this (fundamentalist Christian) website that mentions the Kuiper Belt just shortly before its discovery, and suggests that it represents the remains of two exploded planets dubbed Oreon and Terminus. Terminus may not be a good name, but what about Oreon? (I'm still in favor of "Hyperion" and "Nox" though)

 

[Doom Shepherd]

Honestly, "cleared its orbit" should be the term they teach elementary school students before they move on to more complex descriptions..

A more accurate and logical phrase for planetary consideration would be "gravitationally dominates its orbit." Pluto is Neptune's gravitational bitch, so it's not a planet, but an object large enough to be responsible for the Kuiper cliff - and found due to the motions of the bodies it dominates - would be.

Ah, I've said all this already here. Read the old posts.

Naming conventions for planets already exist. Arnold is not going to happen. Neither is fetch.

Also, Earth = Silicon, because it's the most common element on Earth, while Carbon is not.

 

[Joey P - the official]

Naming conventions for planets already exist. Arnold is not going to happen. Neither is fetch.

Also, Earth = Silicon, because it's the most common element on Earth, while Carbon is not.

I agree with the Earth = Silicon thing.

But I myself think Greco-Roman mythology has had enough when it comes to astronomy. I've actually made another thread (so far all the posts except for one are from me) with a poll (so far 2 votes yes; 1 no) where I've proposed giving names from The Fairly OddParents and Danny Phantom to various celestial objects (some of which are already named). For example, if the orbital perturbations on the dwarf planets turn out to be caused by a neutron star but much farther away, we can name that neutron star Daniel Fenton. And then we can name a planet or asteroid orbiting around it Lady Justice. After all, there is a real neutron star nicknamed Calvera after a character from The Magnificent Seven, so I don't see why Danny Phantom can't have a neutron star named after him?

 

[Timewalker]

I haven't read this thread, but will just say this. The ninth planet already has a name: Pluto.

And if people are going to complain about the rest of the Kuiper Belt Objects having to be called planets, let them. The notion that it would be too hard to remember all their names is silly, given all the things for which we already know the names.

It might actually inspire some kids to get more interested in astronomy or the space program if they hear one of these exotic, unfamiliar names and want to learn more about it.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I haven't read this thread, but will just say this. The ninth planet already has a name: Pluto..

Well someone had to say it.

But but.. it's not big enough to be a planet according to whoever removed its designation.

 

[Timewalker]

Well someone had to say it.

But but.. it's not big enough to be a planet according to whoever removed its designation.

Neil Degrasse Tyson can go fly a kite.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Neil Degrasse Tyson can go fly a kite.

Now now. Don't be mean to Mr Science.

 

[Tenacity]

If the IAU won't accept it, should we riot?

Should anyone who isn't a part of the IAU particularly care what the IAU accepts or doesn't?

 

[Joey P - the official]

Should anyone who isn't a part of the IAU particularly care what the IAU accepts or doesn't?

We'll let's just hope they officially name Planet Nine Persephone even though there's already an asteroid named that.

Now can we just get over the fact that Pluto isn't a planet anyway but Persephone might be? And oh, this brings me to another issue: the irony.
Pluto/Hades raped Persephone in the myth. But Pluto isn't a planet, while Persephone is. Should we just embrace the irony? Larry Niven had his Persephone in his Known Space series, and made it a gas giant nearly the size of Saturn with an inclination of 120 degrees (thus retrograde). While his Known Space series was written while Pluto was still a planet, the books do not count Pluto as a planet because it is an escaped moon of Neptune (in his first novel World of Ptavvs Pluto was knocked into a heliocentric orbit when Knazol's ship crashed way too hard on it).

So let's just embrace the irony that the molester isn't a planet while the victim is.

Going back to the naming problem, if Planet Nine won't be officially named Persephone or Proserpina, then hopefully they'll try Proserpine. That's a little easier to pronounce than Proserpina and has the same number of syllables as Persephone, and will help distinguish it from asteroids #26 and #399. Or even try Persephone's variants Persephatta and Persephassa!

 

[Timewalker]

We'll let's just hope they officially name Planet Nine Persephone even though there's already an asteroid named that.

Now can we just get over the fact that Pluto isn't a planet anyway but Persephone might be? And oh, this brings me to another issue: the irony.
Pluto/Hades raped Persephone in the myth. But Pluto isn't a planet, while Persephone is. Should we just embrace the irony? Larry Niven had his Persephone in his Known Space series, and made it a gas giant nearly the size of Saturn with an inclination of 120 degrees (thus retrograde). While his Known Space series was written while Pluto was still a planet, the books do not count Pluto as a planet because it is an escaped moon of Neptune (in his first novel World of Ptavvs Pluto was knocked into a heliocentric orbit when Knazol's ship crashed way too hard on it).
Furthermore, I have The Magic School Bus Gets Lost in the Solar System at my school, and the book does mention the old theory that Pluto is an escaped Neptunian moon and not a true planet at all. Anyhow, Pluto (and Charon) are far more likely to be oversized comet nuclei than escaped moons of Neptune.

So let's just embrace the irony that the molester isn't a planet while the victim is.

Going back to the naming problem, if Planet Nine won't be officially named Persephone or Proserpina, then hopefully they'll try Proserpine. That's a little easier to pronounce than Proserpina and has the same number of syllables as Persephone, and will help distinguish it from asteroids #26 and #399. Or even try Persephone's variants Persephatta and Persephassa!

You're aware that Larry Niven is a science fiction writer, and not a real scientist, right?

Pluto may be classified as a "dwarf planet" but it's still a planet - just a small one.

As for it "not clearing the area around"... hello, excuse it for having moons (and a twin, which is what Charon essentially is). That's an odd little system out there, and we've just begun to really study it.

 

[Joey P - the official]

You're aware that Larry Niven is a science fiction writer, and not a real scientist, right?

Pluto may be classified as a "dwarf planet" but it's still a planet - just a small one.

As for it "not clearing the area around"... hello, excuse it for having moons (and a twin, which is what Charon essentially is). That's an odd little system out there, and we've just begun to really study it.

Yes, I am aware that Larry Niven is not a full-on scientist. But I think we should just copy what he did with Pluto and Persephone.
And OK, fine. Pluto is a planet. Just because its one of many worlds that have complex geological processes. Sedna has an interior liquid water ocean, too!

Also, we could also try "Persephoneia" from Homer's Odyssey instead of Persephone. It's just one more syllable and two more letters (the maximum letters for a name is 15), helps to distinguish it more from 399 Persephone, and after all, it's from Homer's Odyssey so that should be notable enough.

Neither is fetch.