I was disappointed that Neelix left Voyager

[Prax]

Ethan Philips was an experienced stage actor who had already won his accolades on Broadway. Him and Picardo both worked in New York during the 70's and 80's, were longtime friends and originally auditioned for the opposite roles on Voyager (Philips for the doctor, Picardo for Neelix).

I think Philips is a great actor, even if it doesn't always come through with Neelix.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Ethan Philips was an experienced stage actor who had already won his accolades on Broadway. Him and Picardo both worked in New York during the 70's and 80's, were longtime friends and originally auditioned for the opposite roles on Voyager (Philips for the doctor, Picardo for Neelix).

I think Philips is a great actor, even if it doesn't always come through with Neelix.

These are just words. They can be refuted by simply watching his performances. He's been on Numbers, Bones, Criminal Minds and Boston Legal, when he pops up, my response is always the same. "This is why Neelix sucked". I didn't expect it at first, in fact I expected that he would vindicate himself. But just the opposite happened.

Point me to a good Ethan Phillips performance. In the meantime, I can point you to a lot of bad ones. Let's start with "Jetrel".

"I think Philips is a great actor". I don't even know how to respond to this. Well maybe I do. No you really don't. You just like to root for the underdog. But to what end, I might ask?

Good actors grow the characters that they portray. Sometimes shows have breakout characters that weren't even originally intended to be the stars of the show. Ethan's acting skills torpedoed Neelix.

Good lord can you imagine Ethan Phillips as the doctor?

And one final question... You said "I think Philips is a great actor, even if it doesn't always come through with Neelix". This implies that his acting skills sometimes came through with Neelix. Can you point me to a scene on Voyager where Ethan's acting skills really shined? Or was even believable?

 

[jmidnight_99]

When I said "the beginning of the end", it's a figure of speech. I meant that after Neelix departure, the atmosphere was different like if something missed. Of course, I'm happy that the character found a family.

"The beginning of the end" means the event to which ending or failure can be traced. Since the event of Neelix's departure from Voyager was three episodes from the end of the end, that this was perceived by you to be the beginning of the end is at least, superfluous.

 

[Prax]

"I think Philips is a great actor". I don't even know how to respond to this. Well maybe I do. No you really don't. You just like to root for the underdog. But to what end, I might ask?

It's a good thing we have a psychologist around to teach us what our true motivations are.

You don't care for Philips. Got it. That's your preference, not some universal value that applies to anyone else.

A person's value can be appraised by their accomplishments. Philips has had a very successful career, on stage, on screen, and on the big screen. He must be doing something right.

And one final question... You said "I think Philips is a great actor, even if it doesn't always come through with Neelix". This implies that his acting skills sometimes came through with Neelix. Can you point me to a scene on Voyager where Ethan's acting skills really shined? Or was even believable?

The Neelix character has never had an issue with believability. I've never heard anyone(unless except for you) complain that Neelix didn't feel like a character, just complaints that he can be an annoying character. When Neelix is annoying, I've never thought of the actor underneath. I've only thought of Neelix being annoying. I've never heard anyone say that Neelix is wooden, or breaks the 4th wall, or was unconvincing. He's(the character) just a pest sometimes.

His has good performances in episodes like fair trade, Riddles, Homestead, The haunting of Deck 12, or Juggernaut.

Neelix is annoying whenever he pops in poking and prodding. His worst episode(in my opinion) is Rise. There are "single worst episodes" for every character, though.

 

[urbandefault]

These are just words. They can be refuted by simply watching his performances. He's been on Numbers, Bones, Criminal Minds and Boston Legal, when he pops up, my response is always the same. "This is why Neelix sucked". I didn't expect it at first, in fact I expected that he would vindicate himself. But just the opposite happened.

Point me to a good Ethan Phillips performance. In the meantime, I can point you to a lot of bad ones. Let's start with "Jetrel".

"I think Philips is a great actor". I don't even know how to respond to this. Well maybe I do. No you really don't. You just like to root for the underdog. But to what end, I might ask?

Good actors grow the characters that they portray. Sometimes shows have breakout characters that weren't even originally intended to be the stars of the show. Ethan's acting skills torpedoed Neelix.

Good lord can you imagine Ethan Phillips as the doctor?

And one final question... You said "I think Philips is a great actor, even if it doesn't always come through with Neelix". This implies that his acting skills sometimes came through with Neelix. Can you point me to a scene on Voyager where Ethan's acting skills really shined? Or was even believable?

These are just words.

Someone must have thought he was doing a decent job in the character, or he'd have been dismissed.

 

[Cavewoman]

I really do think it was just the character that was annoying in the first season or so. I mean his acting never made me disbelief the character..Neelex was very jealous of Tom, and he was putting his nose into a lot of people's business. We really felt for Tuvok when Neelix came over and interrupted his reading. They wrote him to be annoying and he was, that's good acting. LOL. Anyway, I did start to soften up to him as he became a godfather and made up with Tom. He was a really empathic, loving character to his ship mates. which was also a change in the writing. And to add to my first premise...the writing always indicated how excited Neelex was to get to Earth and meet everyone....then the writing took a left turn and he got off at the first/last planet that had his people there...whom he didn't even know. He's family was aboard Voyager. So blah to his getting off Voyager. With that said, I am reading the books to gain a better perspective of his new circumstance.

 

[at Quark's]

^ Still, I think can understand his choice.

Let's not forget that the Neelix we met in Season 1 had gone through some pretty horrible experiences. He considered himself a coward for not reporting for duty when the Talaxian military needed him (even though he also thought the war itself was wrong), and was on Talax instead of Rinax during the Metreon Cascade that vaporised his entire family. His feelings of guilt must have been debilitating- much worse than just "survivor's guilt". We see that in, for example, Jetrel and Mortal Coil. Then he flees his own planet and he can only survive by scavenging trash and perhaps the occasional swindle or cheat, in a stellar neighbourhood that is so impoverished and hostile that he doesn't even know anybody who would waste perfectly good water on taking a bath.

And then he meets Voyager. He must have jumped at the opportunity to escape from it all-- anywhere was better than where he lived. In the early years we see him desperately trying to fit in, to make himself useful, for fear of being thrown out. Even after 3 full years on Voyager he still is so afraid that he's willing to do some very dangerous and shady dealing just to obtain a map (Fair Trade). Only after Janeway reprimands him but doesn't throw him out, giving him a little speech about how they only have each other, he begins to understand that "giving his best" simply is good enough for these Federation people- and always will be.

In the years that follow Neelix slowly becomes more friendly and central to the crew. Instead of being a 'parasite', he becomes one of the people genuinely concerned for his crewmates' well being. In short, he learns to reconnect to people. To trust again. And yes -- he becomes part of the family.

But Neelix is not retarded and must have realised that if Voyager would ever reach earth, his "family" would break up and he would essentially be alone on a foreign planet, no matter how friendly these Federation aliens are -- even if he could contact some old members of his "family" every now and then it still wouldn't be the same. He'd essentially have to start over anyway.

And then, against all expectations, they come accross a Talaxian colony. So long after he had accepted the likelihood he would never again meet any of his own kind, and after having having opened up again to people, capable of trusting them instead of exploiting them, he gets another unexpected second chance with people from his own culture. An opportunity to care for a Talaxian family after his "desertion" of his own family on Rinax.

It may not have been the "smartest" choice ever (as in: how safe is that Talaxian colony)? But I can understand he grasped this last opportunity with both his hands, safe in the knowledge that all of the Voyager crew would understand his choice.

 

[jmidnight_99]

You don't care for Philips. Got it.... Philips has had a very successful career, on stage, on screen, and on the big screen. He must be doing something right.

His has good performances in episodes like fair trade, Riddles, Homestead, The haunting of Deck 12, or Juggernaut.

There are lots of mediocre to bad actors out there with long filmographies. This isn't a measure of acting skill.

My point here is simple. The character had a lot of potential, but that was left unrealized at least somewhat because of the way the actor portrayed the character. I've seen Philips in other parts, and he brought the exact same qualities to those other parts, that is "annoying". It isn't hard to do the math. Perhaps he has a long filmography because he is the first actor a casting director thinks of when they need someone confused, weak, and annoying for a part.

You don't need to get personal everything someone strongly disagrees with you. There is controversy around this character, when the character should have been really interesting, and I blame the actor.

And the performances you listed are not what I'd consider great performances. They were adequate performances at best, and perhaps could have been great with better actor.

Now, are you going reply how great he is again? Funny thing is... anyone could have been cast for this role, and right or wrong, you'd be having the exact same conversation with me. They could have cast Billy Barty to don some makeup and hobble around as Neelix, and you'd be telling me exactly the same things here.

Think out of the box a little.

Edit: Bad acting: Do you remember that horrible, limp performance by that original Captain Janeway? Thank God they recast her at the last minute. After watching that performance, and listening to the "official" reason why she left, it occurs to me that one would have to have oatmeal for brains to believe it.

 

[jmidnight_99]

These are just words.

Someone must have thought he was doing a decent job in the character, or he'd have been dismissed.

They did that with Dr. Crusher and Kes... didn't they? See how well that worked out? Maybe you forgot that, huh?

 

[DonIago]

If Neelix was an acquired taste, he was a taste I never acquired, though he did show some potential in episodes such as "Jetrel".

 

[urbandefault]

There are lots of mediocre to bad actors out there with long filmographies. This isn't a measure of acting skill.

My point here is simple. The character had a lot of potential, but that was left unrealized at least somewhat because of the way the actor portrayed the character. I've seen Philips in other parts, and he brought the exact same qualities to those other parts, that is "annoying". It isn't hard to do the math. Perhaps he has a long filmography because he is the first actor a casting director thinks of when they need someone confused, weak, and annoying for a part.

You don't need to get personal everything someone strongly disagrees with you. There is controversy around this character, when the character should have been really interesting, and I blame the actor.

And the performances you listed are not what I'd consider great performances. They were adequate performances at best, and perhaps could have been great with better actor.

Now, are you going reply how great he is again? Funny thing is... anyone could have been cast for this role, and right or wrong, you'd be having the exact same conversation with me. They could have cast Billy Barty to don some makeup and hobble around as Neelix, and you'd be telling me exactly the same things here.

Think out of the box a little.

Edit: Bad acting: Do you remember that horrible, limp performance by that original Captain Janeway? Thank God they recast her at the last minute. After watching that performance, and listening to the "official" reason why she left, it occurs to me that one would have to have oatmeal for brains to believe it.

They did that with Dr. Crusher and Kes... didn't they? See how well that worked out? Maybe you forgot that, huh?

You're really invested in this, aren't you? Lighten up, Francis. Life's too short to waste time trying to convince people an opinion is hard fact.

That said, I've wasted too much time on this already. Over and out.

 

[jmidnight_99]

If Neelix was an acquired taste, he was a taste I never acquired, though he did show some potential in episodes such as "Jetrel".

Are you kidding? Watch the scene in "Jetrel" right after the opening credits where he's explaining to Janeway who Jetrel is. The scene is so badly acted that it hurts to watch. His "rage" is unconvincing, the rest of it is up and down and uneven, not a second of it fluid or convincing. "He's a mass murderer!" Please. And they say Shatner couldn't act. For another bad acting treat, watch the scene where Neelix is on the planet with Tuvok in "Tuvix".

Watch Jeri Ryan in "Infinite Regress" as she changes from personality to personality so fluidly and convincingly that you have to remind yourself that it's Jeri Ryan playing Seven, for an example of real acting.

SEVEN: Please help me. I'm looking for my son Gregory Bergan, Lieutenant Bergan. Have you seen him?
JANEWAY: No, I'm afraid not.
SEVEN: From the starship Melbourne.
JANEWAY: Melbourne?
SEVEN: I was supposed to meet him at Wolf 359, but Starfleet sent out a warning that the Borg were attacking that sector. It was too late for us to turn back. We were caught in a terrible battle. My ship was badly damaged. We had to leave on escape pods. I never found out what happened to Gregory. Please, I haven't heard from him in over three days. Could you check with Starfleet Headquarters?
JANEWAY: I'll see what I can do.
SEVEN: Thank you, Captain. If you do speak with him, could you tell him that his mother is all right and if he could poss...

You're really invested in this, aren't you? Lighten up, Francis. Life's too short to waste time trying to convince people an opinion is hard fact. That said, I've wasted too much time on this already. Over and out.

You were under no obligation to participate in the first place.

 

[urbandefault]

Are you kidding? Watch the scene in "Jetrel" right after the opening credits where he's explaining to Janeway who Jetrel is. The scene is so badly acted that it hurts to watch. His "rage" is unconvincing, the rest of it is up and down and uneven, not a second of it fluid or convincing. "He's a mass murderer!" Please. And they say Shatner couldn't act. For another bad acting treat, watch the scene where Neelix is on the planet with Tuvok in "Tuvix".

Watch Jeri Ryan in "Infinite Regress" as she changes from personality to personality so fluidly and convincingly that you have to remind yourself that it's Jeri Ryan playing Seven, for an example of real acting.

SEVEN: Please help me. I'm looking for my son Gregory Bergan, Lieutenant Bergan. Have you seen him?
JANEWAY: No, I'm afraid not.
SEVEN: From the starship Melbourne.
JANEWAY: Melbourne?
SEVEN: I was supposed to meet him at Wolf 359, but Starfleet sent out a warning that the Borg were attacking that sector. It was too late for us to turn back. We were caught in a terrible battle. My ship was badly damaged. We had to leave on escape pods. I never found out what happened to Gregory. Please, I haven't heard from him in over three days. Could you check with Starfleet Headquarters?
JANEWAY: I'll see what I can do.
SEVEN: Thank you, Captain. If you do speak with him, could you tell him that his mother is all right and if he could poss...




You were under no obligation to participate in the first place.

I started to look for a meme to show how ridiculous all this is, but I realized that is wasn't necessary.

Please, continue.

 

[jmidnight_99]

I started to look for a meme to show how ridiculous all this is, but I realized that is wasn't necessary.

Please, continue.

Priscilla, you are not obligated to read or respond if you're not interested in the subject matter, or more likely, if the subject matter is over your head. Perhaps you should look for a "meme" that represents that? I'm sure there are posts that are better suited to your apparent intelligence level, such as what was "Chuckles" favorite color, or some such nonsense. "Meme". What are you 12?

 

[Prax]

I started to look for a meme to show how ridiculous all this is, but I realized that is wasn't necessary.

Please, continue.

I believe you've just been accused of r/whooooosh.

 

[Danja]

I started to look for a meme to show how ridiculous all this is, but I realized that is wasn't necessary.

Honey, this is a Star Trek board.

We're the ORIGINAL obsessed fans. We're the people who design our basements to look like the bridge of the Enterprise.

https://www.cnet.com/news/relax-in-this-30000-star-trek-enterprise-basement/

We have fights over how the armrests of the Enterprise-E are affronts to canon!

 

[Prax]

We have fights over how the armrests of the Enterprise-E are affronts to canon!

pfff ...Everyone knows that. It's all but two

 

[Danja]

pfff ...Everyone knows that. It's all but two

 

[Akiraprise]

You're really invested in this, aren't you? Lighten up, Francis. Life's too short to waste time trying to convince people an opinion is hard fact.

That said, I've wasted too much time on this already. Over and out.

This was approaching the line where I say settle down a bit, it's a character discussion, don't make it personal. Etc.

Priscilla, you are not obligated to read or respond if you're not interested in the subject matter, or more likely, if the subject matter is over your head. Perhaps you should look for a "meme" that represents that? I'm sure there are posts that are better suited to your apparent intelligence level, such as what was "Chuckles" favorite color, or some such nonsense. "Meme". What are you 12?

And this crossed the line. You've been around the block here long enough now to know this was never going to fly jmidnight_99. Infraction for flaming.

 

[jmidnight_99]

This was approaching the line where I say settle down a bit, it's a character discussion, don't make it personal. Etc.

And this crossed the line. You've been around the block here long enough now to know this was never going to fly jmidnight_99. Infraction for flaming.

That crossed the line? You should have seen what I erased! Seriously, I wish you guys would give infractions for inciting (e.g. trolling), before it gets to this point. What was he hoping to accomplish, and what did you expect me to do?