I want Khan.

[CorporalClegg]

The fact is, we know Khan's history. I don't care whether the character's do or not. The movie is supposed to entertain us and if we know the character well, and a lot of us do, we are not going to be surprised nor applaud when his eventual demise happens....

Khan has a son? Maybe in fanon, but not in canon.

The only thing "we know" about his history is he was some genetically altered freak who try to take over the world, failed, was put on ice, and sent off into space. What does that have anything to do with potential story lines besides being a starting point?

And who's to say that history can't be altered a little as a means to an end, a few crybaby "fans" having a temper tantrum on a web forum?

And if your only fear of a antagonist is his inevitable demise, why even bother having one at all?

 

[Photoman15]

Since Khan will be the same, when released from cryo-sleep, he will try to take over the ship. Hopefully mcGivers will bea crew member on this ship and will betray Khan again to save the captain (and the ship). Don't need o see it again.

 

[Saul]

The fact is, we know Khan's history. .

Which could be completely different in this alternate timeline. This is not a remake.

WANT SOMETHING NEW!
Me no want rehash of dead villain.
Ugh

Just a rehash of a 45 year old TV show?

The Joker is Batman's arch nemesis. There has to be a Joker in every version of Batman, be it Romero, Nicholson, Hamill or Ledger. He has to be reinvented for every generation. Khan was intended as a one-shot villain, who was brought back to very good use by Harve Bennett and Nick Meyer. He's not the same as The Joker.

Well hang on. The Joker was invented as a one shot villain too. There is nothing to say Khan can't be reinvented as everything else has been.

While I like TWOK an awful lot, I do think that Trek fans overstate its popularity and status among casual cinema fans. I don't think Khan is all that iconic. I suspect Montalban is better known for Mr Roarke than Mr Singh. And the Klingons are much better known than either Khan or the Borg.

Mr. Roarke? Not trying to be funny. But I don't know him. Was he off that show with the Bond baddie Nick nack?

I can't see how you can possibly on the one hand argue that we need to see more of Khan and then say that the Klingons are done to death.

The Klingons have been featured in some way in every Star Trek movie and series and have been in countless episode as the villain and goodie and even one of the main characters on TNG, DS9 and VOY was a Klingon and you're asking how I think Klingons are done to death? Seriously? We didn't see enough yet???

The casual fans who will see the next movie won't have seen this. We haven't seen 23rd century Klingons (apart from in DS9's Trials and Tribble-ations) since TUC in 1991 - 20 years ago.

Any casual fan who tuned into any Star Trek episode from time to time would have seen the Klingons. They are way overused. Khan was used twice. Twice!

The Klingons are the definitive bad guy race in classic Trek and Kirk had three memorable opponents in Kor, Kang and Koloth.

Yep definitive for over 40 years of Star Trek. I've seen enough.

I'd argue that if any classic Trek villains are ripe for recasting and reinvention, it's any and all of them. I think the Joker/Batman comparison is more apt here. We got the origin movie out of the way - now it's time to reinvent the hero's best known enemy.

It would have to be a dramatic reinvention and from the hints of what we saw in deleted scenes of Trek 09 I wasn't all that impressed. Also another thing is that the Klingons never really had a main Villain for Kirk to face against again and again unlike Batman's Joker. Klingons are a faceless enemy much like the Borg were. Khan is a Villain that we know can challenge Kirk in a way no other Villain has, including Klingons. Except for General Chang. I wouldn't mind seeing him again.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Since Khan will be the same, when released from cryo-sleep, he will try to take over the ship.

Says who?

That's entirely up to the writers. Khan doesn't exist. He's anything they decide he is.

And BTW, all this gibberish about Klingons and viruses is annoying. Fuck the Klingons. The Klingons can all die forever in the first thirty seconds of this movie and I'll gladly buy four extra tickets in celebration. The Klingons are among the most ridiculous, cloying, repetitious one-note critters in Trek continuity.

 

[CorporalClegg]

WANT SOMETHING NEW!
Me no want rehash of dead villain.
Ugh

Not anymore of a rehash than Ru'afo, Soren, Chang, Shinzon, et cetra.

The whole point of this thread is I want them to reuse the character and take him in a completely different direction. I've said it three times now--as have others.

Since Khan will be the same, when released from cryo-sleep, he will try to take over the ship.

Says who?

That's entirely up to the writers. Khan doesn't exist. He's anything they decide he is.

This. Hell, they could make him into a used car salesmen who has a fetish for men in g-string bikinis.

 

[Set Harth]

Not anymore of a rehash than Ru'afo, Soren, Chang, Shinzon, et cetra.

You mean, not any more of a rehash than those villains who were only used once?

Hell, they could make him into a used car salesmen who has a fetish for men in g-string bikinis.

And you'd pay to see that?

 

[A Little Otter]

Here's a twist--the Enterprise revives Khan and his followers as happens in the original "Space Seed" and Khan reveals himself to be a formidable foe; however, another, more powerful villain rears its ugly head so Khan has to team up with Kirk & co. in order to defeat the common enemy. We could still relish having Khan, but it's a different take on the character that we haven't seen before, and still create an original villain as well.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Hell, they could make him into a used car salesmen who has a fetish for men in g-string bikinis.

And you'd pay to see that?

I paid to see Star Trek 5. Once.

 

[davejames]

The Klingons are the definitive bad guy race in classic Trek and Kirk had three memorable opponents in Kor, Kang and Koloth. I'd argue that if any classic Trek villains are ripe for recasting and reinvention, it's any and all of them.

Agreed. I'd absolutely love to see a return of the more militaristic, devious, Nazi-style Klingons of TOS.

Unfortunately it looks like the only ones we ever get anymore are the primitive, honor-obsessed warrior Klingons of TNG. Which I am oh-so-tired of.

 

[davejames]

Here's a twist--the Enterprise revives Khan and his followers as happens in the original "Space Seed" and Khan reveals himself to be a formidable foe; however, another, more powerful villain rears its ugly head so Khan has to team up with Kirk & co. in order to defeat the common enemy. We could still relish having Khan, but it's a different take on the character that we haven't seen before, and still create an original villain as well.

Eh, the good guys teaming up with the villain has become such a cliche by this point. The only way I could possibly go for that, was if Khan was only using the other threat as a ploy to take over the Enterprise or kill Kirk or something.

 

[Photoman15]

The fact is, we know Khan's history. .

Which could be completely different in this alternate timeline. This is not a remake.

.

The timeline deviated when Nero passed thru the black hole and appeared near the Kelvin. Anything that happened before that (Khan being a megalomaniac in the Eugenics Wars) still is as it was.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

No, it's not.

Because none of this is real.

It's completely malleable, and the creators have already demonstrated through the success of the first one that the tolerance of the paying audience for casual revision and ambiguity is extraordinarily greater than one would expect from talking to trekkies on message boards.

If they use Khan, they'll change him as they see fit for the sake of their narrative. The film will likely be a success, and fans will argue about the hows and whys of Khan being different - many declaring it completely unacceptable - for years. And none of that will matter one bit more than doubling the size of the Enterprise in post-production did.

 

[CorporalClegg]

No, it's not.

Because none of this is real.

You could say it a million times and people still won't get it.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

They get it. They just don't like the ramifications.

 

[Aldo]

No, it's not.

Because none of this is real.

It's completely malleable, and the creators have already demonstrated through the success of the first one that the tolerance of the paying audience for casual revision and ambiguity is extraordinarily greater than one would expect from talking to trekkies on message boards.

Why even say they're in an alternate universe in the first place then? They laid down a set of rules in the first film, if they all of a sudden break these rules just for the hell of it, it kills any sense of realism the movie's universe has.

Khan was frozen before Nero came back and disrupted the timeline, therefore Khan is still the same person he was. No amount of mucking about from Nero will change that.

 

[Trekkie2]

Yes, of course, they are going to take a meglomaniac from the 20th century, bent on world domination, and turn him into a prancing fairy in a pink tutu. Only in fanfiction, and slash fanfiction at that. The fact is Khan was a tyrant bent on world domination before he took an ice nap. When he wakes up, he will still be bent on world domination, as he was in Space Seed. Whether he'll be able to dominate depends on who finds him. In any respect, he will not be a nice guy, his life will not turn out well, in fact, since the federation is against world domination, he will most likely end up dying violently, trying to change that fact. That part is not going to change.

No pink tutu's for Khan.

 

[Kemaiku]

Since Khan will be the same, when released from cryo-sleep, he will try to take over the ship.

Says who?

That's entirely up to the writers. Khan doesn't exist. He's anything they decide he is.

And BTW, all this gibberish about Klingons and viruses is annoying. Fuck the Klingons. The Klingons can all die forever in the first thirty seconds of this movie and I'll gladly buy four extra tickets in celebration. The Klingons are among the most ridiculous, cloying, repetitious one-note critters in Trek continuity.

Or, Khan wakes, escapes, and sets about conquering the Klingon Empire making it something totally new.

 

[Dream]

Fuck the Klingons. The Klingons can all die forever in the first thirty seconds of this movie and I'll gladly buy four extra tickets in celebration.

You must really love TMP.

 

[Shatnertage]

The Khan that shows up doesn't necessarily have to be Khan Noonien Singh, megalomaniacal megalomaniac from the 1990s. It could be Chaka Khan, funk/R&B singer from the 1980s.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEwj3Etj2e4&feature=related[/yt]

That could be...fun.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Why even say they're in an alternate universe in the first place then? They laid down a set of rules in the first film...

No, they didn't.

They made a number of assertions, created some contradictions and left themselves all kinds of loopholes - and the audience by and large accepted it all. What they did, most of all, was convince a huge audience that nuTrek is worth watching.

The point of what they did in the first film was to free themselves from "canon." That's it. They did it. Since people embraced the new cast and the new continuity they can do what they think best now, and only a very few people will object - endlessly and vociferously.