Something I was wondering when watching "These are the Voyages", was Trip speaking figuratively, or is money still in use in the 22nd century?
"I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my money"
- Thread starter Josh Kelton
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Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
I think credits are still used. TNG I believe refers to them. He is speaking figuratively though about the people he trusts and why.
I think credits are still used. TNG I believe refers to them. He is speaking figuratively though about the people he trusts and why.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
Federation credits were mentioned in TNG The Price, but these Credits were only given to dirty foreigners who were not socialists the same as the UFP Citizens who believed in working towards the betterment of man and fortunately the state looks after them after the fact and maybe not completely proportionately or relatively compared to others... I think of it as like Monks volunteering for community service. Meanwhile Picard said there was no money in First contact and Kirk said there was no money in the Voyage home. Sisko said that everything changed after the bell riots in 2024, which the writers at the time hardly were aware was 30 years before wwiii which would have lead to a complete reshuffle of the worlds economics again before they began to ape the Vulcans ten years after that.
I read some behind the scenes stuff about the trouble with tribbles (In the novelization of Trials and Tribbleations.) where Gene told the writer that crdits were not money, when they were discussing about how they were all "buying" drinks at the bar. So goodness knows what Gene meant by that.
Meanwhile in the Shadows of P'Jem, Trip looks disgusted when he notes about that Shaty town of the entrenched poor living on the out skirts of a super city on Coridan and says "These people have a lot to learn about building a free society." Which is proof positive in my mind that there is no money in the future by that point.
Federation credits were mentioned in TNG The Price, but these Credits were only given to dirty foreigners who were not socialists the same as the UFP Citizens who believed in working towards the betterment of man and fortunately the state looks after them after the fact and maybe not completely proportionately or relatively compared to others... I think of it as like Monks volunteering for community service. Meanwhile Picard said there was no money in First contact and Kirk said there was no money in the Voyage home. Sisko said that everything changed after the bell riots in 2024, which the writers at the time hardly were aware was 30 years before wwiii which would have lead to a complete reshuffle of the worlds economics again before they began to ape the Vulcans ten years after that.
I read some behind the scenes stuff about the trouble with tribbles (In the novelization of Trials and Tribbleations.) where Gene told the writer that crdits were not money, when they were discussing about how they were all "buying" drinks at the bar. So goodness knows what Gene meant by that.
Meanwhile in the Shadows of P'Jem, Trip looks disgusted when he notes about that Shaty town of the entrenched poor living on the out skirts of a super city on Coridan and says "These people have a lot to learn about building a free society." Which is proof positive in my mind that there is no money in the future by that point.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
I think Gene meant he wanted to have things both ways; he wanted the abolition of currency when he wanted to talk about his economic views, and he wanted it to be possible to tell stories involving every day life, although nobody (including him, and including Marx) has ever come up with a decent way to produce and distribute goods without using some form of currency.
A distaste for poverty doesn't relate to abolishing money. Trip's remark implies that he knows something of the reasons behind the poverty, which could easily include a politically and/or economically unfree society.
I think Gene meant he wanted to have things both ways; he wanted the abolition of currency when he wanted to talk about his economic views, and he wanted it to be possible to tell stories involving every day life, although nobody (including him, and including Marx) has ever come up with a decent way to produce and distribute goods without using some form of currency.
A distaste for poverty doesn't relate to abolishing money. Trip's remark implies that he knows something of the reasons behind the poverty, which could easily include a politically and/or economically unfree society.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
There was 20 years between Star Trek IV and Trouble with Tribbles.
Forgive the man if this wasn't a work in progress.
Nog made it clear that Humans don't have money they have a philosphy. To which Jake said "hey, don't mock our philosophy!"
The invention of food synthesizers would mean that there is no scarsity for food. The use of Antimatter would mean that earthy power needs are met effortlessly. The only issue is space. But given the choice of living on a show box on earth or "founding" a midrange colony (The Boomer fleet had to go somewhere.) and sharing a planet with 12 other dudes, space is only an issue for the stubborn SOBs after Hank Archer's warp 5 engine becomes standard with all vessels for 5 seconds before the warp seven engine supplants it.
There was 20 years between Star Trek IV and Trouble with Tribbles.
Forgive the man if this wasn't a work in progress.
Nog made it clear that Humans don't have money they have a philosphy. To which Jake said "hey, don't mock our philosophy!"
The invention of food synthesizers would mean that there is no scarsity for food. The use of Antimatter would mean that earthy power needs are met effortlessly. The only issue is space. But given the choice of living on a show box on earth or "founding" a midrange colony (The Boomer fleet had to go somewhere.) and sharing a planet with 12 other dudes, space is only an issue for the stubborn SOBs after Hank Archer's warp 5 engine becomes standard with all vessels for 5 seconds before the warp seven engine supplants it.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
well unless species want to go the Barter and Trade route a medium to set value will be needed. that is where currency comes in.
I was thinking one time that a quandrant wide Bank or banking systems with branches on many planets and sectors of the quadrant. Would be ideal.
so if a species came from a far sector of the quadrant but was in the Bank currency exchange system that species could rent accomodations buy food at an eatery, etc.
It would also be good for some species to laundner their ill gotten gains.
Precious metals wouldn't really work because what is prescious in one sector need not be thought of as precious in another and setting an excchange based on metals is firghtful unless all parties regarded the metal as prescious.
Currency fills the bill. It can be transferred, carried, kept in accounts and can be readily kown value wise every where.
Banks have been on Earth a long time and disregarding the present day issues they will be around for a lot longer because they work.
So, my theory is that a interquadrant banking system and a interquadrant currrency excchange sistem would be ideal.
For instance it would help the boomers greatly as they could set their profit margins in any currency and deal in any currency and set their charges and prices in any currency.
Personaly, I like cash. with Plastic I tend to overspend with cash if I don't have it I can't spend it.
well unless species want to go the Barter and Trade route a medium to set value will be needed. that is where currency comes in.
I was thinking one time that a quandrant wide Bank or banking systems with branches on many planets and sectors of the quadrant. Would be ideal.
so if a species came from a far sector of the quadrant but was in the Bank currency exchange system that species could rent accomodations buy food at an eatery, etc.
It would also be good for some species to laundner their ill gotten gains.
Precious metals wouldn't really work because what is prescious in one sector need not be thought of as precious in another and setting an excchange based on metals is firghtful unless all parties regarded the metal as prescious.
Currency fills the bill. It can be transferred, carried, kept in accounts and can be readily kown value wise every where.
Banks have been on Earth a long time and disregarding the present day issues they will be around for a lot longer because they work.
So, my theory is that a interquadrant banking system and a interquadrant currrency excchange sistem would be ideal.
For instance it would help the boomers greatly as they could set their profit margins in any currency and deal in any currency and set their charges and prices in any currency.
Personaly, I like cash. with Plastic I tend to overspend with cash if I don't have it I can't spend it.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
And that's nice for the Ferengi or the lusepians, but humans don't have money.
Think about how people who get paid a salary rather than a wage don't get extra for over time, but don't get docked for sick days.
Besides, Picard never asked for payment once while helping broken vessels like Okana's for instance, and Janeway was giving away help and supplies freely too, she didn't need "money" or the equivalent bartar or such until she wanted stuff off some of the people who didn't want to hand over what was their's out of nicety.
Did Archer laugh when the ferengi asked him where his vault was?
Hell in season three, was it platinum they needed? they had to strip engine parts to pay for services rendered in their search for the xindi.
You don't need money if everything is free and/or priceless.
And that's nice for the Ferengi or the lusepians, but humans don't have money.
Think about how people who get paid a salary rather than a wage don't get extra for over time, but don't get docked for sick days.
Besides, Picard never asked for payment once while helping broken vessels like Okana's for instance, and Janeway was giving away help and supplies freely too, she didn't need "money" or the equivalent bartar or such until she wanted stuff off some of the people who didn't want to hand over what was their's out of nicety.
Did Archer laugh when the ferengi asked him where his vault was?
Hell in season three, was it platinum they needed? they had to strip engine parts to pay for services rendered in their search for the xindi.
You don't need money if everything is free and/or priceless.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
Gardner, I am kind of thick. I don't understand your post.
In one Episode called first flight Archer, tucker, Robinson and an Admiral are all in the 602 club having a drink.
Just how did they come by those drinks? charity? Or do they have some sort of account that their salary is paid into that they can have drinks credited to?
How does Star Fleet pay to have food, equipment, repairs done
etc. There must be some sort of transaction taken place that requires some sort of exchange rate. currency or the equivalent.
When the enterprise was on risa the pleasure planet how did the crew pay for accomodations, meals, entertainment? There has to be some sort of arrangement for value exchange and currency is probably the best way to achieve that.
In some situations barter excahnge was asked for. Dead Stop the Repair station asked for an exahnge of goods rather than payment.
In the xindi the foreman wanted platinum as exchange.
But, if there is going to be some quadrant wide econimy there has to be somme sort of medim of exchange. A Banking system and currency would do it.
Hell Plastic has to some time come down to Money. Even if is is on paper. the value exchange measured in monetary units.
I don''t car4e what is used to represent monetary units Cocoa beans, large stone wheels, or gold coins you cannot escape the need for something to represent value that a whole society agrees on.
A banker in 10th century china would know exactly what a banker in 10th century Italy was talking about even if he didn't understand the language spoken he would understand money and how it is used.
Gardner, I am kind of thick. I don't understand your post.
In one Episode called first flight Archer, tucker, Robinson and an Admiral are all in the 602 club having a drink.
Just how did they come by those drinks? charity? Or do they have some sort of account that their salary is paid into that they can have drinks credited to?
How does Star Fleet pay to have food, equipment, repairs done
etc. There must be some sort of transaction taken place that requires some sort of exchange rate. currency or the equivalent.
When the enterprise was on risa the pleasure planet how did the crew pay for accomodations, meals, entertainment? There has to be some sort of arrangement for value exchange and currency is probably the best way to achieve that.
In some situations barter excahnge was asked for. Dead Stop the Repair station asked for an exahnge of goods rather than payment.
In the xindi the foreman wanted platinum as exchange.
But, if there is going to be some quadrant wide econimy there has to be somme sort of medim of exchange. A Banking system and currency would do it.
Hell Plastic has to some time come down to Money. Even if is is on paper. the value exchange measured in monetary units.
I don''t car4e what is used to represent monetary units Cocoa beans, large stone wheels, or gold coins you cannot escape the need for something to represent value that a whole society agrees on.
A banker in 10th century china would know exactly what a banker in 10th century Italy was talking about even if he didn't understand the language spoken he would understand money and how it is used.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
No human pays another human for anything and no human expects to be paid and they can't be paid because there is no money. They work and serve because it's nice and it benefits others or they just plain enjoy a vocation.
Dealing with aliens with alien ideas is different.
Your examples are mostly about aliens dealing with cheap ass humans who expect something for nothing, although Risa seems to be a world that just gets off on (literally) on giving. But Quark called the federation a very generous landlord since they didn't actually charge rent for the space occupied by his bar, of course that was the episode Sisko blackmailed Quark by threatening to charge him 4 years of unnpaid back rent because something dubious was going on. The federation will pay, but mostly they don't ask to be paid for stuff.
The Federation as a whole would need a currency to "buy" stuff off other governments, but inside the federation to your average citizen such federation currency would be worthless and inside the federation there would be no way to spend it because everything is freely given or not for sale.
That's internal vs external policy.
In some countries now healthiness free, in other countries education is free, however finding people to service unpaid positions would mean that you have to find people that actually want to teach for the love of teaching and heal for the love of healing which isn't going to happen anywhere outside of religion. Humans don't have money, they have a philosophy. To make the species better, at least according to Picard, and every child is indoctrinated to think just the same as that from birth.
Between automated labour and free energy one would expect from future tech, humans don't actually have to do anything, %99 of the population could be selfish bastard parasites sitting on their ass doing nothing and it would all still run like clock work, but what type of life is that? To be a pet with out goals or ambition waiting to die? Every job out there is that of an unpaid intern but every job is intrinsically rewarding on its own merits to someone who just has to find it, and education was free and you didn't have to worry about feeding yourself or keeping a roof over your head of clothing yourself, what sort of alpha penguin could you make of yourself? Why shouldn't the world be some place that doesn't hamstring you from becoming the best you can be?
Then we get on to property rights?
Do individuals actually own anything rather than the state allows the use of dwellings and areas?
There is no scarsity. There doesn't have to be money.
No human pays another human for anything and no human expects to be paid and they can't be paid because there is no money. They work and serve because it's nice and it benefits others or they just plain enjoy a vocation.
Dealing with aliens with alien ideas is different.
Your examples are mostly about aliens dealing with cheap ass humans who expect something for nothing, although Risa seems to be a world that just gets off on (literally) on giving. But Quark called the federation a very generous landlord since they didn't actually charge rent for the space occupied by his bar, of course that was the episode Sisko blackmailed Quark by threatening to charge him 4 years of unnpaid back rent because something dubious was going on. The federation will pay, but mostly they don't ask to be paid for stuff.
The Federation as a whole would need a currency to "buy" stuff off other governments, but inside the federation to your average citizen such federation currency would be worthless and inside the federation there would be no way to spend it because everything is freely given or not for sale.
That's internal vs external policy.
In some countries now healthiness free, in other countries education is free, however finding people to service unpaid positions would mean that you have to find people that actually want to teach for the love of teaching and heal for the love of healing which isn't going to happen anywhere outside of religion. Humans don't have money, they have a philosophy. To make the species better, at least according to Picard, and every child is indoctrinated to think just the same as that from birth.
Between automated labour and free energy one would expect from future tech, humans don't actually have to do anything, %99 of the population could be selfish bastard parasites sitting on their ass doing nothing and it would all still run like clock work, but what type of life is that? To be a pet with out goals or ambition waiting to die? Every job out there is that of an unpaid intern but every job is intrinsically rewarding on its own merits to someone who just has to find it, and education was free and you didn't have to worry about feeding yourself or keeping a roof over your head of clothing yourself, what sort of alpha penguin could you make of yourself? Why shouldn't the world be some place that doesn't hamstring you from becoming the best you can be?
Then we get on to property rights?
Do individuals actually own anything rather than the state allows the use of dwellings and areas?
There is no scarsity. There doesn't have to be money.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
Gardner, do you mind if I say what you have posted sounds a bit utopian?
I really doubt if the crew aboard the enterrise is there out of good feelings and really don't expect any reward for their work except room and board.
although it is never brought up in the series and a paymaster or a financial section seems not be on board. I have an idea that the Officers and Crew are salaried.
The gathering of preprety is inherent in mankind. It is sort of a score keeper. The more you win the higher your score.
Males compete for property, money, beautiful women. all those are markers of a mans sucess in life's game.
There are those who scorn money and property but they usually wind up sleeping on park benches.
On Enterrise there are ranks. that rank denotes the responsibilty the person wearing it can accept. it also is a pay grade.
If I am asked if I am alergic to anything I reply, Poverty.
Actuallly our discussin is pintless because the two of us see the world through different prisms.
Gardner, do you mind if I say what you have posted sounds a bit utopian?
I really doubt if the crew aboard the enterrise is there out of good feelings and really don't expect any reward for their work except room and board.
although it is never brought up in the series and a paymaster or a financial section seems not be on board. I have an idea that the Officers and Crew are salaried.
The gathering of preprety is inherent in mankind. It is sort of a score keeper. The more you win the higher your score.
Males compete for property, money, beautiful women. all those are markers of a mans sucess in life's game.
There are those who scorn money and property but they usually wind up sleeping on park benches.
On Enterrise there are ranks. that rank denotes the responsibilty the person wearing it can accept. it also is a pay grade.
If I am asked if I am alergic to anything I reply, Poverty.
Actuallly our discussin is pintless because the two of us see the world through different prisms.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
It's not pointless because i keep supplying new quotes from the series to support unarguable first principles like "I've always be vague about money".
And yes it is Utopian. That's the point fo Star Trek. The Vulcans had had a hundred years to make the humans they found hovering around campfires out side the irradiated burnt out cities of World War 3 into content futurists.
They are explorers, the wonder of being out in space and seeing what has never been seen before and meeting those who have never been met before is just about the only reason they are out there. Of course after the Xindi attack recruitment into starfleet is going to take on a darker aspect since people will want to join up to defend the earth... Did you ever wonder on DS9 what the Botanists did for the war effort?
How can there be a pay master if there isn't a vault?
How about this?
When the crew was kidnapped and sold as slaves Archer didn't have money he had to use the ships supply of tritaniun colbalt to buy back some of his crew. No money, just spare parts and supplies from engineering.
And this:
Did I mention that I have had this conversation before?
It's not pointless because i keep supplying new quotes from the series to support unarguable first principles like "I've always be vague about money".
And yes it is Utopian. That's the point fo Star Trek. The Vulcans had had a hundred years to make the humans they found hovering around campfires out side the irradiated burnt out cities of World War 3 into content futurists.
They are explorers, the wonder of being out in space and seeing what has never been seen before and meeting those who have never been met before is just about the only reason they are out there. Of course after the Xindi attack recruitment into starfleet is going to take on a darker aspect since people will want to join up to defend the earth... Did you ever wonder on DS9 what the Botanists did for the war effort?
How can there be a pay master if there isn't a vault?
How about this?
When the crew was kidnapped and sold as slaves Archer didn't have money he had to use the ships supply of tritaniun colbalt to buy back some of his crew. No money, just spare parts and supplies from engineering.
And this:
Of course then it just becomes what is the definition of the late 22nd century if according to TNG Attached the unified Earth Government didn't assume control of the planet until 2250, only a year before the series began, so if it was one of the goals of the unified Earth government to destroy currency, this was very early days.
Did I mention that I have had this conversation before?
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
Gardner you had this conversationn before? Did you come to some sort of agreement with who you were in the conversation.
Frankly, I am not a fan of Trek as far as anything dealing with reality goes.
I can buy into suspending my disbelief as far as phasers, Warp Drifes, Transporters, ect. goes. But in other matters, no.
For intance, in enterprise when the writers make T-Pol claim to outrank trip and there fore can take command of Enterprise and later the writersmake her the first officer that is Baloney. couldn't happen in the real world. Also the Xindi. Five fiferent species supppsedly really one. that too is nonsense.Vulcans ahd umans eing so phsically similar that Trip and T-Pol can have sexual relatins. Dobut that.
So in the matter of currency what the writers come up with and what would be reality is very far apart.
Gardner you had this conversationn before? Did you come to some sort of agreement with who you were in the conversation.
Frankly, I am not a fan of Trek as far as anything dealing with reality goes.
I can buy into suspending my disbelief as far as phasers, Warp Drifes, Transporters, ect. goes. But in other matters, no.
For intance, in enterprise when the writers make T-Pol claim to outrank trip and there fore can take command of Enterprise and later the writersmake her the first officer that is Baloney. couldn't happen in the real world. Also the Xindi. Five fiferent species supppsedly really one. that too is nonsense.Vulcans ahd umans eing so phsically similar that Trip and T-Pol can have sexual relatins. Dobut that.
So in the matter of currency what the writers come up with and what would be reality is very far apart.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
Spock.
"reality" is the Eugenic wars where our children tried to destroy us, World War III where weapons fire was tied into the pleasure centers of our brains and Colonel Green's Optimum where he Euthenized millions upon millions genetically damaged mutants from the wars fallout to secure the purity of the species.
Mankind is some sort of bastard animal that can't be trusted not to become a murderous tyrant at the first opportunity.
Reality is, that to survive for another 400 years we have to find some way to force our children to be nice kind and generous and ignore the frak out of the worst and obvious inclinations we selfishly gravitate towards to improve our lot at the expense of others.
Social surgery.
Cut away the cancer.
The entire planet is a kindergarten.
You've read 1984?
Good is what you teach people is good. Normal is what you teach people normal is. Human nature is what you tell Humans it is. That is if you were the supreme ruler of the planet and you could instill the instruction of children to be unwaveringly "just so" that only happy shiny people come out the other end, that after a generation or two, parents would not know how to teach their children how to be idiots obsessed with self aggrandizement, violence, racism and avarice.
Evolve or die.
If they hadn't decided to change what it meant to be human, adopting and near worshiping their "philosophy", humanity would have destroyed itself utterly come world War IV or World War V. So in effect they did kill man kind and replaced it with a completely different animal that bared a striking resemblance.
It was a question of survival just like the Vulcans Age of Enlightenment when they chose logic over emotion to end the possibility of another certainly larger atomic war... All that being said, I have no idea how the Klingons made it so far. Possibly their incredibly quick turn around on the maturation period that they can rebuild from complete annihilation in a fraction of the time it would take us humans and a third that of what it would take the Vulcans.
Spock.
"reality" is the Eugenic wars where our children tried to destroy us, World War III where weapons fire was tied into the pleasure centers of our brains and Colonel Green's Optimum where he Euthenized millions upon millions genetically damaged mutants from the wars fallout to secure the purity of the species.
Mankind is some sort of bastard animal that can't be trusted not to become a murderous tyrant at the first opportunity.
Reality is, that to survive for another 400 years we have to find some way to force our children to be nice kind and generous and ignore the frak out of the worst and obvious inclinations we selfishly gravitate towards to improve our lot at the expense of others.
Social surgery.
Cut away the cancer.
The entire planet is a kindergarten.
You've read 1984?
Good is what you teach people is good. Normal is what you teach people normal is. Human nature is what you tell Humans it is. That is if you were the supreme ruler of the planet and you could instill the instruction of children to be unwaveringly "just so" that only happy shiny people come out the other end, that after a generation or two, parents would not know how to teach their children how to be idiots obsessed with self aggrandizement, violence, racism and avarice.
Evolve or die.
If they hadn't decided to change what it meant to be human, adopting and near worshiping their "philosophy", humanity would have destroyed itself utterly come world War IV or World War V. So in effect they did kill man kind and replaced it with a completely different animal that bared a striking resemblance.
It was a question of survival just like the Vulcans Age of Enlightenment when they chose logic over emotion to end the possibility of another certainly larger atomic war... All that being said, I have no idea how the Klingons made it so far. Possibly their incredibly quick turn around on the maturation period that they can rebuild from complete annihilation in a fraction of the time it would take us humans and a third that of what it would take the Vulcans.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
Gardner. Yes I read 1984.
I thought we were talking about money.
As I sadi I am a little thick so I really cannot discuss things like philosophy.
I haven't te slighest idea of what is going to happen in 400 years, Hell I am not sure what will happen tomorrow.
The future as far as I know is potential as it has not happened yet. it is mutuable (sp).
For a paradox. Our future is someones past.
I still think that currency in some form and Banking will still be around 400 years from now based on history.
Gardner. Yes I read 1984.
I thought we were talking about money.
As I sadi I am a little thick so I really cannot discuss things like philosophy.
I haven't te slighest idea of what is going to happen in 400 years, Hell I am not sure what will happen tomorrow.
The future as far as I know is potential as it has not happened yet. it is mutuable (sp).
For a paradox. Our future is someones past.
I still think that currency in some form and Banking will still be around 400 years from now based on history.
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
Replicators don't just create things out of thin air. They require maintenance, energy, and bulk matter to operate. And not everybody has, or wants, a replicator. So the notion that a replicator would make all monetary exchange obsolete is, quite frankly, completely unworkable.
Antimatter? That must still be mined. It doesn't grow on trees. It's a valuable mineral.
Agreed.
The Federation uses 'credits' - we all know that. We've *seen* it. Many times.
Now whether or not credits count as money, in the strictest sense? That's up for interpretation. If you're talking strictly a medium of exchange, then I'd say they are. You can't run an efficient economy without one. But if you mean paper bills, shiny coins, actually a physical presence? Then no. In *that* sense, money is not used.
It'd certainly explain things like Spock's "What does it mean, 'exact change'?" in ST IV. If all monetary exchanges are 'electronic' - no physical currency changes hands - then of course the concept of 'change' is meaningless. I live my life this way now, because I generally don't use cash (I pay for everything with cards).
Replicators don't just create things out of thin air. They require maintenance, energy, and bulk matter to operate. And not everybody has, or wants, a replicator. So the notion that a replicator would make all monetary exchange obsolete is, quite frankly, completely unworkable.
Antimatter? That must still be mined. It doesn't grow on trees. It's a valuable mineral.
Agreed.
The Federation uses 'credits' - we all know that. We've *seen* it. Many times.
Now whether or not credits count as money, in the strictest sense? That's up for interpretation. If you're talking strictly a medium of exchange, then I'd say they are. You can't run an efficient economy without one. But if you mean paper bills, shiny coins, actually a physical presence? Then no. In *that* sense, money is not used.
It'd certainly explain things like Spock's "What does it mean, 'exact change'?" in ST IV. If all monetary exchanges are 'electronic' - no physical currency changes hands - then of course the concept of 'change' is meaningless. I live my life this way now, because I generally don't use cash (I pay for everything with cards).
Re: "I trust you aren't lying to me" or "I trust you won't steal my mo
Un no. The CERN partial Accelerator has been making antihydrogen since 1995 by shooting antiprotons at xenon clusters. Meanwhile Deuterium can be extracted from sea water or space. It might take a while, but if getting the "fake" ingredients for a matter and antimatter reaction, which this fiction we adore that supposes will make warp travel possible is doable even today, in real life, then futuretech makes the entire process a thousand times more piss easy.. Of course antihydrogen was mentioned as the matter additive for a matter/antimatter reaction in TNG Relics, which aired three years before we figured out how to make antihydrogen in Geneva.
Of course, we saw a Deuterium refinery in ENT Marauders didn't we?
Looked like an oil pump derrck to me.
Archer was paying for his Deuterium with medical supplies and "power cells". Just crap laying about his ship. Sounds like they're paying for labour more than the resource. Like picking up a cool refreshing beverage from a road side lemonade stand run by kids.
Dilithium on the other hand might be what you're thinking about.
That TOS wtih Harry Mudd pimping those botox beauties to Dilithium miners who are practically hillbillies but very rich, and worth putting up with their provincialness for the Liberty of being Mrs Rich Hillbilly?
Um, how often did they mention credits after Star Trek IV? Because I thought TNG the Price was one of the few instances available and that was only because it dealing with Aliens?
The Vulcans have been in space for half a million years, even if they like to stay close to home, if they had a currency it should have been usable and accepted by most of the nearby loacal governements to Earth/Vulcan Space, that the Humans should have had a vault stocked with Vulcan currency... But they didn't.
Replicators are recyclers by the way. Kieko was pissed that Miles never rolled his socks up and stick them back in the replicator at the end of the day, meanwhile Janeway was angry at Chakotay for not decompiling her birthday present she thought was unnecessary which might have made instead boots during the Year of Hell. Which puts the machine on par with a Mr Fusion from Back to the Future if it wasn't maintained with out any grossness where people are forced to crap where they eat, by the state without a few degrees of seperation.
Food synthesizers are not replicators.
Meanwhile, you want a good job, you have to pay your dues in a crappy job to get experience. hell, that's what i assumed that the enlisted area of Star Fleet was all about. A technical college with hands on experience you can use to pad your resume in the hopes of landing a good and rewarding job on the other side of the Starfleet service contract. Everyone working at Sisko's, is probably wanting to learn how to cook like Joe. They'd put up with a lot to get a look at his recipes and a referral from the old codger, if not actually take over the place when the chef on top feels too old, since none of his kids seem interested in cooking much.
There are plenty of reasons to do crappy jobs.
Un no. The CERN partial Accelerator has been making antihydrogen since 1995 by shooting antiprotons at xenon clusters. Meanwhile Deuterium can be extracted from sea water or space. It might take a while, but if getting the "fake" ingredients for a matter and antimatter reaction, which this fiction we adore that supposes will make warp travel possible is doable even today, in real life, then futuretech makes the entire process a thousand times more piss easy.. Of course antihydrogen was mentioned as the matter additive for a matter/antimatter reaction in TNG Relics, which aired three years before we figured out how to make antihydrogen in Geneva.
Of course, we saw a Deuterium refinery in ENT Marauders didn't we?
Looked like an oil pump derrck to me.
Archer was paying for his Deuterium with medical supplies and "power cells". Just crap laying about his ship. Sounds like they're paying for labour more than the resource. Like picking up a cool refreshing beverage from a road side lemonade stand run by kids.
Dilithium on the other hand might be what you're thinking about.
That TOS wtih Harry Mudd pimping those botox beauties to Dilithium miners who are practically hillbillies but very rich, and worth putting up with their provincialness for the Liberty of being Mrs Rich Hillbilly?
Um, how often did they mention credits after Star Trek IV? Because I thought TNG the Price was one of the few instances available and that was only because it dealing with Aliens?
The Vulcans have been in space for half a million years, even if they like to stay close to home, if they had a currency it should have been usable and accepted by most of the nearby loacal governements to Earth/Vulcan Space, that the Humans should have had a vault stocked with Vulcan currency... But they didn't.
Replicators are recyclers by the way. Kieko was pissed that Miles never rolled his socks up and stick them back in the replicator at the end of the day, meanwhile Janeway was angry at Chakotay for not decompiling her birthday present she thought was unnecessary which might have made instead boots during the Year of Hell. Which puts the machine on par with a Mr Fusion from Back to the Future if it wasn't maintained with out any grossness where people are forced to crap where they eat, by the state without a few degrees of seperation.
Food synthesizers are not replicators.
Meanwhile, you want a good job, you have to pay your dues in a crappy job to get experience. hell, that's what i assumed that the enlisted area of Star Fleet was all about. A technical college with hands on experience you can use to pad your resume in the hopes of landing a good and rewarding job on the other side of the Starfleet service contract. Everyone working at Sisko's, is probably wanting to learn how to cook like Joe. They'd put up with a lot to get a look at his recipes and a referral from the old codger, if not actually take over the place when the chef on top feels too old, since none of his kids seem interested in cooking much.
There are plenty of reasons to do crappy jobs.
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