What Would It Take For You To Go Vegan? And If You Won't, Why Won't You?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The word "exploiting" implies ill intent. Clearly you have no such intent. Therefore, logically speaking, there is no exploitation.

Yes, the wool does come from the sheep. But that is not always a bad thing. Like I said, if the SHEEP don't have a problem with it, then neither should you.

And, ALSO like I said, the wool is already there. You've already shorn the sheep. You can't walk that back. So if you just throw the wool away, how is that NOT a waste?

 

[Oddish]

No it's not, vegans cannot use animals in any way. The whole philosophy behind veganism is that you do not use animals at all.

And that is why I will never adopt it as a way of life. Vegetarianism is a pragmatic decision not to eat meat, borne of respect for the lives of animals. Veganism seems more like religious zealotry. I try to avoid such things in my actual religion, so I don't need it anywhere else, either.

And, ALSO like I said, the wool is already there. You've already shorn the sheep. You can't walk that back. So if you just throw the wool away, how is that NOT a waste?

Zealots aren't pragmatic people. They run their lives based on principles, even if there's no positive return from it.

 

[Serveaux]

Bacon.

I like meat. I've no inclination to change.

 

[JD]

The word "exploiting" implies ill intent. Clearly you have no such intent. Therefore, logically speaking, there is no exploitation.

For the people who run the sanctuaries, they see the use of anything that comes from the animals on the sancturary as exploitation. This is just what they are saying not me.

Yes, the wool does come from the sheep. But that is not always a bad thing. Like I said, if the SHEEP don't have a problem with it, then neither should you.

The people who run these sanctuaries do see it as a bad thing. I think in their minds using to make clothes or things like that, is contributing the system and the industry that they saved the animals from.

And, ALSO like I said, the wool is already there. You've already shorn the sheep. You can't walk that back. So if you just throw the wool away, how is that NOT a waste?

They don't "just throw it away" though, they put it out for the birds and other wild animals to use in their nests or dens. And when I mentioned this to my mom, who's follows a several sanctuaries too, she said that a some of them also use it bedding for the other animals.

 

[SithHappens]

It must be a minefield if you are vegan or even vegetarian to a degree. I guess you can rely on your own actions but not those of others.

I'd have thought cross contamination would be a big risk as if you dine out or get take away food etc.

When you see restaurants and take aways getting 1 stars for food hygiene in the UK whete regulations are supposed to be tight then I reckon if someone isn't on top of their hygiene then they won't be on top of keeping food separate.

And if you travel overseas would you always trust their to be no cross contamination.

Personally if someone wants to be really strict and not use wool etc that's their business and no one's else's to challenge.

 

[Oddish]

Personally if someone wants to be really strict and not use wool etc that's their business and no one's else's to challenge.

Of course. All are free to make their own decisions, and with cotton and synthetics readily available, wearing wool is a choice rather than a necessity.

However, it simply illustrates the mindset that seems typical of the vegan lifestyle. It is a mindset I do not choose for myself.

 

[JD]

It must be a minefield if you are vegan or even vegetarian to a degree. I guess you can rely on your own actions but not those of others.

I'd have thought cross contamination would be a big risk as if you dine out or get take away food etc.

When you see restaurants and take aways getting 1 stars for food hygiene in the UK whete regulations are supposed to be tight then I reckon if someone isn't on top of their hygiene then they won't be on top of keeping food separate.

And if you travel overseas would you always trust their to be no cross contamination.

Personally if someone wants to be really strict and not use wool etc that's their business and no one's else's to challenge.

I'm not as worried about little bits of cross contamination since it's not an allergy or anything that, but my main concern is more about actually getting the vegan version of something when I order it. A while back Taco Bell introduced a vegan nacho cheese, and my mom and I thought about going and getting some nachos with it, but we decided we didn't trust the people working there to actually give us the right one and never ended up going.

 

[Kor]

I've had those! In Seattle, at a Mariners game.

They were delicious, although I wouldn't do it again because they are also expensive and you don't get much.

And they are EXTREMELY spicy. I was actually jumping up and down on the concourse, in the ballpark, going "I NEED A BEER!"

I believe Laughing Dragon's pic is actually silkworm pupae, different taste and texture than the chapulines/crickets.

Kor

 

[May 20]

Actually, my diet is almost all carnivore. I eat meat and eggs daily. I still drink black tea and eat very small amounts of vegetables and almost no fruit. I eat no grains at all. I feel better when I eat this way. My pain is much less; my energy is steady; my sleep is more refreshing. My health is so much better than it used to be when I ate carbohydrates regularly.

So, for me to go vegan, there would have to be no meat for me to eat.

 

[Relayer1]

The word "exploiting" implies ill intent. Clearly you have no such intent. Therefore, logically speaking, there is no exploitation.

Yes, the wool does come from the sheep. But that is not always a bad thing. Like I said, if the SHEEP don't have a problem with it, then neither should you.

And, ALSO like I said, the wool is already there. You've already shorn the sheep. You can't walk that back. So if you just throw the wool away, how is that NOT a waste?

It is a waste.

I'd prefer a definition of veganism where exploitation entailed some negative effect on the animal. If there is none, I have no problem with it.

However, do those happily shorn sheep live contented and comfortable lives dying eventually of old age ?

 

[JD]

The problem is that in pretty much all of the industries, even if they aren't killing the animals, they are still treated horribly.

 

[Oddish]

It varies by the size of the operation, and the ethics they observe. Some animals have only one bad day. Others don't have any good ones.

Among my personal rules are buying cage-free eggs and not consuming veal. And as I said, maybe vegetarian or pescatarian some day.

 

[Victoria]

It is a waste.

I'd prefer a definition of veganism where exploitation entailed some negative effect on the animal. If there is none, I have no problem with it.

However, do those happily shorn sheep live contented and comfortable lives dying eventually of old age ?

The "negative effect" that the sheep suffers is being bred to have thick fleeces that they can't shed. Wild sheep (the "original" sheep) have fleeces that grow to keep them warm in winter and which they shed naturally come the warmer weather - similar to other animals whose coats thicken in the winter months.

There's no advantage to the sheep in a coat that causes them to overheat nor is there any advantage to the sheep to being reliant on humans to remove the coat to stop the overheating.

Using wool from sheep that have been bred in that way can be equated to saying "oh well, that ancient building got knocked down accidentally. Never mind, now the ground is clear, we can slap up some flats". if you accept that, then you open the way to buildings "accidentally-on-purpose" being knocked down. Same with sheep. If we say "oh well, the sheep have already been bred like that so it's okay to use the wool" then you open the gate to further breeding for purposes of exploitation.

And sheep used for wool are usually slaughtered for meat well short of their natural life expectancy. The wool is a byproduct of meat production.

 

[Relayer1]

The "negative effect" that the sheep suffers is being bred to have thick fleeces that they can't shed. Wild sheep (the "original" sheep) have fleeces that grow to keep them warm in winter and which they shed naturally come the warmer weather - similar to other animals whose coats thicken in the winter months.

There's no advantage to the sheep in a coat that causes them to overheat nor is there any advantage to the sheep to being reliant on humans to remove the coat to stop the overheating.

Using wool from sheep that have been bred in that way can be equated to saying "oh well, that ancient building got knocked down accidentally. Never mind, now the ground is clear, we can slap up some flats". if you accept that, then you open the way to buildings "accidentally-on-purpose" being knocked down. Same with sheep. If we say "oh well, the sheep have already been bred like that so it's okay to use the wool" then you open the gate to further breeding for purposes of exploitation.

And sheep used for wool are usually slaughtered for meat well short of their natural life expectancy. The wool is a byproduct of meat production.

I agree. We need to stop breeding animals that have abnormal traits that we find useful. I would, however have small protected populations to prevent breeds dying out entirely.

I've heard arguments that stopping meat consumption would mean slaughtering billions of animals anyway. As they're destined for that anyway there's no real downside, but it's not necessary - we should just stop breeding them.

 

[SithHappens]

Whats a Vegans view on keeping pets? Dogs Cats etc? Curious as never really asked the question. And if they are kept are there suitable alternatives to meat based feeds?

 

[Relayer1]

Whats a Vegans view on keeping pets? Dogs Cats etc? Curious as never really asked the question. And if they are kept are there suitable alternatives to meat based feeds?

I've had birds, fish and am currently in servitude to a rescue cat.

Pets are generally speaking bastardised versions wild animals. It's not ideal, and I'm against doing that, but that horse bolted. And by rescuing a three legged cat I feel I've made a small contribution.

By the way - keep your cats indoors folks ! They'll live longer and it stops the furry little psychopaths decimating the local fauna.

 

[JD]

Whats a Vegans view on keeping pets? Dogs Cats etc? Curious as never really asked the question. And if they are kept are there suitable alternatives to meat based feeds?

Most of vegans I've seen online don't seem to have a problem with pets like cats and dogs. There might be a few super hardcore people who have a problem with it, but I think most of them are off on the deeper fringes of veganism.
As for the food there are vegan dog foods and dogs can do pretty well on them, but the ones I've seen on it don't look quite as good as dogs on meat based food. My mom still gets meat based food for our dogs, and at least a couple of the vegan run sanctuaries I've seen feed their meat based food.
And cats can't survive at all on a non-meat diet.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

I had a food experience that made me think of this thread.

The last few years I kept thinking my peanut butter tasted off but I chalked that up to my medication screwing my tastebuds as usual. For the first time i took a good look at the jar and there was a small v symbol that I never noticed. Mystery solved. Yuck. Switched brands and all is good.

 

[JD]

Wouldn't most peanut butter be vegan by default? I thought they were mostly just ground up peanuts.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Wouldn't most peanut butter be vegan by default? I thought they were mostly just ground up peanuts.

I think I might have to eat my words. You’re right. My previous peanut butter was a no-name brand and labelled as more healthy. My bad.