I officially began my journey through all Star Trek on October 9th...
- Thread starter Shalashaska
- Start date
I can think of ways of improving "Shuttlepod One" mostly removing everthing set on Enterprise.
Wouldn't that mean the episode ends with Trip and Malcolm dying? (Or was that the joke?
)Wouldn't that mean the episode ends with Trip and Malcolm dying? (Or was that the joke?
I think the episode ending with one of them eating the other as in a classic Lifeboat Tale would have been a Brave and Stunning moment for Trek.
That's not something new to Trek in Enterprise.
The worst offenders are still TOS and first season TNG where many aliens didn't even get any kind of prosthetic make-up at all, just a fancy costume.
The worst offenders are still TOS and first season TNG where many aliens didn't even get any kind of prosthetic make-up at all, just a fancy costume.
Speaking of the preservers, that's a good explanation for why, in empires like the Klingon, we never see any species but Klingons. Maybe their empire consists mostly of planets preservers had seeded with other Klingons. Like how most TOS (and good chunks of the other trek shows) had the crews encountering species that were identical to humans.
Ii could be that we're all racist and we've seen a hundred different species fighting for the Klingons and just can't tell them apart due to how subtle the differences are - like Vulcans having pointy ears. Bajorians having those nose cuts. Betazoids being identical, etc. And with the Klingons being an empire focused on absorption after being conquered the species longer think of themselves as anything but klingon. Like the Romans did.
Ii could be that we're all racist and we've seen a hundred different species fighting for the Klingons and just can't tell them apart due to how subtle the differences are - like Vulcans having pointy ears. Bajorians having those nose cuts. Betazoids being identical, etc. And with the Klingons being an empire focused on absorption after being conquered the species longer think of themselves as anything but klingon. Like the Romans did.
Honestly in many ways that worked better. TOS had much much better costume design and an eye for aesthetics. The Alien costumes in many ways did the job of comunicating "different culture" and Alien better than the parade of lumpy foreheads. Honestly I think Michael Westmore and crew got into a very set groove on creating Aliens on a TV budget and within TV time frames. Hence they essentially created an assembly line of funny foreheads. A lot of it is quite frankly they got very very experienced at what they did. They learned lots of little lessons better than anyone else. Such as What can we do quickly cheaply and still get a good result. Mixed with "What causes the fewest problems for the actor, the stage crews and production". Essentially "What is comfortable and workable for the actor to wear for days on end". The result got unintentionally distilled down to a certain sameness of look.
At the same time, ENT deserves some credit for dealing with one of those old species in more detail than previous shows had: the Andorians.
I'm going to quote part of a post I recently made in another thread.
For real, I don't understand where this idea that the Preservers are ancient, or powerful, or even widespread got started.
I'd point more towards "Return to Tomorrow" for a TOS-era explanation, honestly. And not that hard to mesh either. "The Chase" is why so many aliens are humanoid at all, "Return to Tomorrow" is why so many aliens around the Federation area are specifically human- or Vulcan-like.
Wait, you're calling out Enterprise for just giving humans with small prosthetics and calling them aliens, and simultaneously giving TOS credit for Vulcans, Klingons, and Romulans as good designs?
Plus, Enterprise also has Denobulans from right out the gate too, don't forget.
Wait, you're calling out Enterprise for just giving humans with small prosthetics and calling them aliens, and simultaneously giving TOS credit for Vulcans, Klingons, and Romulans as good designs?
Plus, Enterprise also has Denobulans from right out the gate too, don't forget.
Just as 2001 A Space Odyssey and more importantly Star Wars were industry game changers for visual effects, the big game changer that completely altered how things were done, and how things looked for make up effects and prosthetics was Planet of the Apes. 1968. Prior to that makeup effects were large bulky and obviously fake looking masks or bulky rubbery appliances. Looking at any Irwin Allen production gives a pretty clear example of what I mean. The TOS production people were ahead of their time for realizing that they got better results and better believability with smaller subtler effects. Such as ears, or the minor makeup touches for Klingons. But they did not yet have at their disposal the true 3D make up techniques using precise casts of the actors faces and sectional thin foam latex appliances, that were pioneered by John Chambers for Planet of the Apes. TOS just didn't have that tech available to it yet.
It should be noted the Michael Westmore, the guy who designed the makeup for every Trek tv show after TOS and the Kirk/Picard movies, apprenticed under John Chambers in the early 60's.
Before anyone asks 3D makeup effects used to be a hobby of mine. I loved researching the history behind it. I've got a few of Westmore's harder to find and long out of print books in my library.
You and @Shalashaska are talking about two different kinds of believability, I think. You're talking about dramatic believability, or narrative believability, the sort of believability that keeps someone from being pulled out of a story by making you go "haha what that looks so stupid". But it sounds like he's talking about scientific believability, questioning the underlying logic beneath having such aliens in the first place. You're talking from an external perspective, and he's talking from an internal. Two different concepts that get confusingly given the same name, leading to miscommunication.
Good point, Idran.
Return To Tomorrow is really the big episode for explaining all the humanoids. "The Preservers" just added to that a little. I don't think it was intended to explain all the humanoids anyway, just those Indians.
Return To Tomorrow is really the big episode for explaining all the humanoids. "The Preservers" just added to that a little. I don't think it was intended to explain all the humanoids anyway, just those Indians.
Very good point. And yeah some of the believability of the Trek aliens over the years was nil. Especially those ones with the weird ridges blocking their mouths and such. That was actually the one advantage that the old Star Trek animated show had over all the others. They could explore true Alien concepts. The three legged crew member. And some very distinct alien species such as walking plants. The problem at heart is you really can't go too alien in a live action dramatic show. They need to be human enough to be able to act. Which puts design and idea limitations in place. Further limitations are further added by the simple economics of production. And ultimately narrative believability in a TV show is a slave to production realities.
Perhaps the best show to deal with more "alien" aliens on a regular basis was Farscape. A show that I highly recommend Shalashaska add to their viewing rotation at some point once they finish trek. Farscape had the benefit of being produced by Jim Henson's son and the Henson creative team. So the same sort of thought that went into The Dark Crystal drove some of their creature designs and they were able to make them act. And even then the limitations soon become clear. (Such as why do the bad guys, one the other side of the universe, all look human? Granted they do eventually answer it well...)
A SF show isn't trying, unless they look for unexplored ways to bring unhumanish aliens into stories. We don't need to have very human-seeming actors projecting very identifiable human emotions and motivations onto every single alien character... actually that's the thing to work against. It's difficult, but if you don't, you end up in Funny Forehead Galaxy, you forget your mission to do real SF, and your show gets a reputation for not trying to do SF at all. People end up assuming it was just meant to be a space opera from the beginning.
I too agree that Asimov's Foundation series isn't SF, nor is his Robot series.
Here's the problem. That's fine in theory, but in practice it only works in books. It only works in a medium where you can actually get into the Aliens head and see the thought process. At least it only works long term. The problem is the ability to emote is tied into human visual storytelling. It's the only way the viewer has of getting into the characters head and establishing empathy with them. In the cases where they do not do this they are either portraying monsters for which deep empathy is not required, or they typically flop horribly as the audience is at best disinterested. Scientific concepts are interesting in the abstract. But at the end of the day they must still be told in a common and all too human visual language. This is why Yoda has Einsteins eyes. Why even Jabba the Hutt has such expressive eyes. It's also why some Alien interpretations fail to click with audiences. The classic example is the Alien hybrid from Alien Ressurection (or the similar bland beasts in Prometheus. About the only recent SF movie to work around these limitations well was Arrival. Which essentially was amovie about those limitations.
Yes SciFi demands more Alien aliens. Unfortunately drama and storytelling demands emotive and empathetic aliens. So not very Alien aliens. In a visual medium drama and storytelling wins.
Similar threads
