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I Need Advice from Womerns of the Female Gender

The way to resolve mixed signals is to ask. Either she says she's interested or she's not. Maybe she hasn't decided herself yet. Are you interested? Say so.

No kidding *geez* I can't even follow my own advice, which is what I would tell someone else. The problem is that I'm trying to tread carefully without scaring her off. I like her as a friend and acquaintance and don't want to make her angry and then she won't have anything to do with me.

I agree with Temis' advice. And you shouldn't worry about scaring her off. Just let her know how you feel without being angry or anything (and it doesn't seem like you are) and she shouldn't have anything to get defensive about. If she is having mixed feelings, you can always give her space or time to sort them out, as long as you're a patient guy.

Basically I would just say be sincere and direct about your intentions. And while it's good for you to be patient and understanding, she should treat you with respect and follow through on plans that she has made with you.
 
Hmmm... I'm a woman but maybe not 'of the female gender' as I'm a butch lesbian... but this situation doesn't sound good.

Listen to msbae! Run away!!

You don't have an obligation to get into a relationship with someone who's that messed up... advice I should have taken twenty years ago when I got involved with a lady with similar issues ( bad breakup with abusive partner, binge drinking, it only got worse from there ).

Just trust me on this, OK?
 
A female friend of mine told me that this woman has been testing the waters with her e-mails (by telling me to have a good day and all that) about having a relationship with me.

(Guy here)

I would have no idea why anyone would come to such a conclusion, although I have found that friends tend to try and find "signs and signals" in such behaviors because they want the object of their friends' interest to be interested in their friend.

I've personally come to the conclusion that women do not send mixed signals. It's a myth. Most "mixed signals" are women just being friendly. Nothing more.
 
Hang on. This woman is less than a year out of a relationship with an emotionally abusive husband? You say her kid is 19 - is he the husband's kid? Was the marriage of that long a duration.

My advice is give the woman some more time to heal.

The MO of emotional abuse is to start by undermining the other person's self-confidence and destroying their sense of self-worth. They make their partner dependent upon them by teaching them that they are useless, incompetent, stupid, ugly etc and just lucky to have somebody as selfless as the abuser to put up with them.

Your friend obviously had the strength to recognise this in the end and get the hell out, but it takes time to rebuild the confidence that an abusive relationship has broken down.

I don't know this woman, so I can't claim to know what's going through her head. However, it's possible from what you tell us here that she like you (the emails and that), but that she's wary of the emotional dependency thar comes with a relationship.

If you care about her, be patient and supportive of the fact that she's been through hell and it takes time to recouperate from that. You say repeatedly in the first paragraph that you understood what she was going through, but do you? I don't mean to pry into whether you've been in an abusive relationship yourself - that's none of my business - but until you've actually been in somebody's shoes you can't actually know exactly what they're dealing with.

If you like each other, care about each other, have fun together and all the other things that make any relationship good, then I don't see why you shouldn't be good for each other. But it has to be on her timeline. If you try to push a person who's still working on rebuilding their own emotional strength into a relationship before their ready it's going to be a disaster.

It's also worth remembering that people who have been in an abusive relationship may have a harder time saying 'no' to others. They've been habituated to cede to the abuser's wishes rather than risk further harm, and often have a hard time learning to assert their own desires again. If she says yes to a date, but then is reluctant to actually commit, it could be that saying 'yes' was more about pleasing you, and that for herself she actually didn't want to make the trip after her night out with her friend. (Again, obviously, since I don't know your friend at all, this is pure speculation based on what some escapees of abusive relationships go through.)
 
Just divorced her husband? That's one red flag... So far, this reeks of a Rebound thing.

Yeah, I was thinking rebound as well. I was looking at her as more of someone to go out with from time to time. I doubt it would develop into something super serious.

So here's the deal, she's 34 with a 19 year old son...
That's two red flags... You may not be paying any of that kid's bills but, it's still something that would concern me.[/quote]

Her son has full scholarships for school and has a job to pay his way. She loves him to death and can't believe he's all grown, but yet she understands that he needs to start making his own way in life and doesn't coddle him in this aspect. She discussed with me how he and three friends were talking about moving into a house together and she knew he was setting himself up to fail, and to her credit she stated it would have to be a hard lesson for him to learn.

And no, this son is not from her marriage. From what I know, the boy's actual dad has had nothing to do with him his entire life.

At this point, I'd be polite but direct and ask her about her intentions. "What is it that you want from me?" is the question I'd ask, in the most polite and emotionally sensitive way possible. Feel free to ad-lib.

Be prepared for anything, John. This is a situation where I would consider a CCW and a concealed .45 to be very useful. Of course, I have trust issues and have dealt with more than a few crazy women over the years... :rolleyes:
Believe you me, I have trust issues that stem mainly from my ex-wife (aka Psycho-Bitch). The last woman I dated wanted to marry me really, really badly. I chalked it up to her being young, starry eyed, and not wanting to be left out (most all of her college friends were all married). That made me really nervous for many reasons and I ended up dumping her, which even today I have my doubts over because we got along so well (hell, I really liked her parents who were nicer to me than my own parents ever were).

A female friend of mine told me that this woman has been testing the waters with her e-mails (by telling me to have a good day and all that) about having a relationship with me.

(Guy here)

I would have no idea why anyone would come to such a conclusion, although I have found that friends tend to try and find "signs and signals" in such behaviors because they want the object of their friends' interest to be interested in their friend.

I've personally come to the conclusion that women do not send mixed signals. It's a myth. Most "mixed signals" are women just being friendly. Nothing more.

No, my friend isn't trying to tell me what I want to hear. I prefer brutal honesty than sugar coated disappointment. She's really confused. I just think it's odd that I would get these e-mail about hoping I have a good day and all that from someone being friendly.

Hang on. This woman is less than a year out of a relationship with an emotionally abusive husband? You say her kid is 19 - is he the husband's kid? Was the marriage of that long a duration.

My advice is give the woman some more time to heal.

The MO of emotional abuse is to start by undermining the other person's self-confidence and destroying their sense of self-worth. They make their partner dependent upon them by teaching them that they are useless, incompetent, stupid, ugly etc and just lucky to have somebody as selfless as the abuser to put up with them.

Your friend obviously had the strength to recognise this in the end and get the hell out, but it takes time to rebuild the confidence that an abusive relationship has broken down.

I don't know this woman, so I can't claim to know what's going through her head. However, it's possible from what you tell us here that she like you (the emails and that), but that she's wary of the emotional dependency thar comes with a relationship.

If you care about her, be patient and supportive of the fact that she's been through hell and it takes time to recouperate from that. You say repeatedly in the first paragraph that you understood what she was going through, but do you? I don't mean to pry into whether you've been in an abusive relationship yourself - that's none of my business - but until you've actually been in somebody's shoes you can't actually know exactly what they're dealing with.

If you like each other, care about each other, have fun together and all the other things that make any relationship good, then I don't see why you shouldn't be good for each other. But it has to be on her timeline. If you try to push a person who's still working on rebuilding their own emotional strength into a relationship before their ready it's going to be a disaster.

It's also worth remembering that people who have been in an abusive relationship may have a harder time saying 'no' to others. They've been habituated to cede to the abuser's wishes rather than risk further harm, and often have a hard time learning to assert their own desires again. If she says yes to a date, but then is reluctant to actually commit, it could be that saying 'yes' was more about pleasing you, and that for herself she actually didn't want to make the trip after her night out with her friend. (Again, obviously, since I don't know your friend at all, this is pure speculation based on what some escapees of abusive relationships go through.)

Very well put and see my comments above about her son. As far as the abuse angle, see my above as well. She, like myself when I was dealing with a mentally abusive spouse, had to come to terms with it before she finally "pulled the ripcord". The difference was that I understood completely everything she had been through, how she was feeling, and what an emotional roller coaster ride it was, whereas everyone else kept asking questions regarding "what", "why", "where", and "how come" regarding her husband and trying to wrap logic around the whole situation. Sane people cannot comprehend the actions and motives around an abusive relationship until they've actually endured one.

I figured patience was the key and that with some time, maybe I could take her out a few times. I've already been kicking myself for not asking if she wanted to go with me to a Roman art exhibit that recently came to the art museum. By attending that exhibit, I received credit for a one of three papers I needed to write for Humanities class. She would have appreciated it, and I could have "shown off" as I studied Latin for 4 years in high school and I know a bit about the culture.

I'll keep my options open for the future. Again, I will stress that I understand she's on the rebound, but then "rebound" is a bit BS, because we're always rebounding from an ended relationship when dating, correct? My thoughts are that we could go out and enjoy activities like two adults. I'm not looking for a roll in the sack. Going out together may hekp both of us emotionally.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
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Womern of the Female Gender here:
You sound like you really have a balanced look on the whole thing. I admire your patience and understanding. It is hard as she has behavior like that because it leaves you open to be hurt a bit by it, when you are expecting her to be consistent in her behavior toward you. Your first instinct is to protect yourself, but I am glad you are wanting to establish healthy boundaries as well. Good for you.

She sounds brilliant, she really does. I grew up around mechanics, and my dad is one, and anyone who is fine hanging out and working on cars, yours and theirs, is a good friend, fun to have around. And she must be very intelligent to keep up in the pharmaceutical industry. No wonder you like her so much. Does she like Trek, too? :)

SiorX really made some good points. It is amazing how screwed up one gets from years of being in an emotionally abusive relationship. Everything gets twisted all up, and it takes time to sort out who you are and time to sort out which way is up. It is easy to feel crazy sometimes.

I'm glad you are giving her time John_Picard...and I'm really glad that she had you as an anchor during that stormy time. It is priceless, as I'm sure you know, to have a friend there giving you a sense of sanity when others around you don't truly see inside the abusive relationship.

I'll bet the Roman art exhibit was way cool.
 
Womern of the Female Gender here:
You sound like you really have a balanced look on the whole thing. I admire your patience and understanding. It is hard as she has behavior like that because it leaves you open to be hurt a bit by it, when you are expecting her to be consistent in her behavior toward you. Your first instinct is to protect yourself, but I am glad you are wanting to establish healthy boundaries as well. Good for you.

She sounds brilliant, she really does. I grew up around mechanics, and my dad is one, and anyone who is fine hanging out and working on cars, yours and theirs, is a good friend, fun to have around. And she must be very intelligent to keep up in the pharmaceutical industry. No wonder you like her so much. Does she like Trek, too? :)

Thank you. Unlike most "men", I do put her needs and desires above my own. She has some new found freedom and can actually go forward with her life and pursue her dreams like she always wanted. Her ex-husband is basically a slack-jawed yokel with very little intelligence. I don't know what she saw in him and I won't pry, but suffice to say, like most abusers, he put on a big show when they were dating, which hooked her. Once her son hit 13, he didn't want anything to do with the boy anymore.

My hobby is old Volkswagens (Beetle, Karmann Ghia, etc) and she likes the hobby. I asked if she was going to give up on them and she said she wasn't because she likes the hobby and all of the people involved. She gave me an education in the world of Pharmacology that was truly an eye opener. Those people who count pills have their asses on the line most every day. WOW :eek:

I'll bet the Roman art exhibit was way cool.

Spectacular. The amount of detail in the marble statues astounded me. The flowing of the robes, the hair, and the faces were all amazing. The exhibit was on loan from the Louvre. I remember enough Latin that I was able to translate some inscriptions. The discharge papers (actually, two bronze plates) of a Roman soldier, after 20+ years of faithful service, was a sight to behold.
 
Listen to msbae! Run away!!

Wow, someone agreeing with me... That doesn't happen everyday... :)

I wouldn't say 'run away' but, keep her at arm's length until you know what's going on here.

Just divorced her husband? That's one red flag... So far, this reeks of a Rebound thing.

Yeah, I was thinking rebound as well. I was looking at her as more of someone to go out with from time to time. I doubt it would develop into something super serious.

So, it's going to be a 'Friend with Benefits' thing at the absolute theoretical most? I'd still advise extreme caution.

Her son has full scholarships for school and has a job to pay his way. She loves him to death and can't believe he's all grown, but yet she understands that he needs to start making his own way in life and doesn't coddle him in this aspect. She discussed with me how he and three friends were talking about moving into a house together and she knew he was setting himself up to fail, and to her credit she stated it would have to be a hard lesson for him to learn.

And no, this son is not from her marriage. From what I know, the boy's actual dad has had nothing to do with him his entire life.
That's 2 more red flags for me. Allowing her son to set himself up for a credit-destroying failure doesn't sound good. I would at least try to admonish my children to avoid such mistakes.

Believe you me, I have trust issues that stem mainly from my ex-wife (aka Psycho-Bitch). The last woman I dated wanted to marry me really, really badly. I chalked it up to her being young, starry eyed, and not wanting to be left out (most all of her college friends were all married). That made me really nervous for many reasons and I ended up dumping her, which even today I have my doubts over because we got along so well (hell, I really liked her parents who were nicer to me than my own parents ever were).
Ex-wives seem to have that effect on people. I hope I never have to endure that kind of situation one day...

No, my friend isn't trying to tell me what I want to hear. I prefer brutal honesty than sugar coated disappointment. She's really confused. I just think it's odd that I would get these e-mail about hoping I have a good day and all that from someone being friendly.
Well, it could be like how a female friend of mine sends me these joke text messages on occasion. Which means she's just 'touching base' with a friend she considers valuable. Occam's Razor works wonders in these situations.

Very well put and see my comments above about her son. As far as the abuse angle, see my above as well. She, like myself when I was dealing with a mentally abusive spouse, had to come to terms with it before she finally "pulled the ripcord". The difference was that I understood completely everything she had been through, how she was feeling, and what an emotional roller coaster ride it was, whereas everyone else kept asking questions regarding "what", "why", "where", and "how come" regarding her husband and trying to wrap logic around the whole situation. Sane people cannot comprehend the actions and motives around an abusive relationship until they've actually endured one.
Some people do have a hard time understanding Empathy...
 
Yeah, I was thinking rebound as well. I was looking at her as more of someone to go out with from time to time. I doubt it would develop into something super serious.

So, it's going to be a 'Friend with Benefits' thing at the absolute theoretical most? I'd still advise extreme caution.

You're reading too much into it. I have, at no point, tried to insinuate that I want it to be "Friends with Benefits".

That's 2 more red flags for me. Allowing her son to set himself up for a credit-destroying failure doesn't sound good. I would at least try to admonish my children to avoid such mistakes.
I guess you don't share my philosophy of avoiding debt :) I don't believe in credit, but she duly warned him that moving in with three other people wouldn't be a smart idea. Think about it: How many men, 18 - 23, know everything? I'll tell you, it's every one of them. Been there, done that. It took him a couple of weeks to wise up to that and he abandoned that idea. But bear in mind, a parent has to reach the point to let his/her progeny stumble and fall. There was a great line in The Dark Knight: "Why do we fall, Bruce? So we can pick ourselves up and learn from it."

Anyway, your comments are appreciated.
 
I'm in a similar situation too.

Recently dated this woman who'm i've met on a dating site so we both knew we weren't looking for someone to play a game with or pursue a hobby.

Over the weeks we emailed back and forth, had a few private chats and talked over the phone and finally we had a date.
It went very well and additionally she had one very embarrasing moment at the end where she wanted to crawl under a rock but i found it highly amusing. It happened because she was very nervous she told me (which i took as a good sign).

So a few days later i haven't heard anything from her.. granted she had to take care of her sick mother and wasn't home much so i wasn't worried. I caught her in a chat a few days later but she couldn't talk long.

So almost a week passes without a single note.. i wrote and sent SMS asking her how she is.

So i began to slowly read between the lines.. happened to me already that i have a good date but suddenly the woman vanishes. So i gave her a few days more and finally asked her openly if there was a problem and she wasn't interested in me anymore.

So i finally got a message back saying she's got a very stressfull time at her job (she's a manager of a hotel reception) but she's still interested and will send a message when it cools down. So i at least know where i'm at.

Lesson? Go the direct route and ask her if this is going somewhere but do it nicely. Try not to come off as angry, demanding or desperate.. just be honest and try to get an answer.
 
Lesson? Go the direct route and ask her if this is going somewhere but do it nicely. Try not to come off as angry, demanding or desperate.. just be honest and try to get an answer.


Yes, you are correct. I forgot to mention that part of the reason I haven't been so "direct" is that her dad has cancer and I can't remember if he has long to live. I figure she's adjusting to her new situation and getting a perspective on life, getting accustomed to her "empty nest" with her son in school full time, as well as helping her mother with dad. And yes, I would fully intend on not being angry, forceful, or demanding. No sense in that.
 
Something came up that she did not want to tell you about and she emails you later to show that she is still interested,at least in retaining your friendship...
 
You're reading too much into it. I have, at no point, tried to insinuate that I want it to be "Friends with Benefits".
Good. That sort of thing always seems to get out of hand.

I guess you don't share my philosophy of avoiding debt :) I don't believe in credit, but she duly warned him that moving in with three other people wouldn't be a smart idea.
Actually, I never buy anything unless I have the funds available first. All bills are paid off as soon as I get them in the mail and usually 1-2 weeks early. That's why the student loans I must repay over the next few years won't be nearly as high as some of my classmates. Poor bastards...

Sallie Mae is going to F*** them in the ass, not use lube or even have the common courtesy to give them a reach-around. I'll be watching her... [/Sgt.Hartman]

Anyway, your comments are appreciated.
Cool.
 
You're reading too much into it. I have, at no point, tried to insinuate that I want it to be "Friends with Benefits".
Good. That sort of thing always seems to get out of hand.

I guess you don't share my philosophy of avoiding debt :) I don't believe in credit, but she duly warned him that moving in with three other people wouldn't be a smart idea.
Actually, I never buy anything unless I have the funds available first. All bills are paid off as soon as I get them in the mail and usually 1-2 weeks early. That's why the student loans I must repay over the next few years won't be nearly as high as some of my classmates. Poor bastards...

Sallie Mae is going to F*** them in the ass, not use lube or even have the common courtesy to give them a reach-around. I'll be watching her... [/Sgt.Hartman]

Anyway, your comments are appreciated.
Cool.

msbae http://www.daveramsey.com ;) If you can, listen to his program or else his pod casts for a week. Like you, all of my main bills are paid the first two weeks of the month. I'm "house poor", but once I sell my current house for something more reasonable, I'll be sitting pretty.
 
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