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I like STID. Is that wrong?

I noticed they found the whitest picture of Cumberbatch possible for that article.

Isn't Cumberbatch pretty damn white in almost any picture?
Yeah, but the chosen picture has him with light blond hair and a what seems to be a spotlight in his face. The only way they could have gone whiter would be a still from "The Fifth Estate." By contrast Montalban's pic is, as noted, from Space Seed where he's in a dark haired wig and covered in brown make up to darken his skin. There's no doubt that Montalban's skin tone isn't as light as Cumberbatch, but the difference isn't a much as the chosen pictures portray.
 
Not sure why this movie is talked about as a mediocre effort. I liked it. A lot.

For context, I have been a fan since the mid-80s. I have always liked ST, but recognize that some efforts are less the exemplary. My favorite series is TNG; my favorite movie TWOK. I liked ST09.

I thought this movie was well-written with great respect for prior incarnations and the established universe. It had great visuals, great acting, and with some relevance.

I liked seeing Khan in action during his prime, especially after being 'awake' for a while, which we really didn't get to see on Space Seed.

I also liked watching Kirk stumble, fall, and learn…

Anyway, I hope I am not the only one.
Yes, it's a crime against humanity. I'm sure there will be trials at the Hague for those who made it and for their followers who like and support it.
 
Not sure why this movie is talked about as a mediocre effort. I liked it. A lot.

For context, I have been a fan since the mid-80s. I have always liked ST, but recognize that some efforts are less the exemplary. My favorite series is TNG; my favorite movie TWOK. I liked ST09.

I thought this movie was well-written with great respect for prior incarnations and the established universe. It had great visuals, great acting, and with some relevance.

I liked seeing Khan in action during his prime, especially after being 'awake' for a while, which we really didn't get to see on Space Seed.

I also liked watching Kirk stumble, fall, and learn…

Anyway, I hope I am not the only one.

One should not conflate appetitive preferences with aesthetic judgments. There are many films which are bad, but which I like anyhow.

You are not "wrong" for liking the taste of cigarettes. I cannot tell you that you are wrong for liking cigarettes, only that you are wrong for smoking three packs a day.

If you want to know why others don't like STiD, you should not regard the possibility of knowing as a reason why you (personally) should not enjoy the film. Rather it is an opportunity to learn what aspects of the film did not please others. Also, if we should happen to find acceptable criteria, it is also an opportunity to criticize the film (to praise and blame its qualities). NOTE: If one cannot praise a film which one dislikes or criticize a film one loves, then one has nothing more to say than "Boo!" or "Hurrah!" when it comes to film discussion. That or the rather dim view of some that film quality is nothing more than a question of dollars and cents.
 
Why are Kirk and his crew loose ends anyway? What do they know that nobody else knows? Kirk and his crew were only a danger to Marcus. Khan was intending to nick off in space to parts unknown.

That is it exactly. Kirk would never have stopped looking for him. Kirk and Co. would have told Starfleet that this Khan-guy is out there.

Of course Khan had to get rid of the only people that knew at this point that he even existed.
 
First of all everyone has his own opinion.

I prefer the original universe.

I see the J.J. universe reboot as stand alone movies. That way I can enjoy watching it.
Into Darkness I liked the most, but I also agree with the remarks of this person:
Everything wrong with Star Trek into Darkness in 7 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REOjxvQPQNQ.
 
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I see Star Trek as a series of effects shots. One day we'll be able to watch them randomly assorted, like mixing music on an iPod. ;)
 
You're not the only one; MILLIONS of people across the planet loved the movie (and the previous one), myself included. Who hates both movies? IMHO, people who treat Star Trek as a religion and think that Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman somehow violated sacred tenets and are apostates who've violated the purity of it, as I've said before.

All that, you I' and other who like the movies can do is just keep on liking them and pay the people who don't no mind, they're in the minority, and the wrong side of things, and they know it.
I hate the movies because they're badly-written, poorly-acted, and practically nothing about them makes any sense. STiD did have some nice musical passages, though.

I may be in the minority on this forum, but as for the "wrong" side if things? BS. There are lots of things I like that other people don't. As others here have said, it's all subjective.

I enjoyed Cumberbatch's version of Khan quite a bit - his performance was brilliantly, coldly menacing and the writers really returned the character to something like the version in "Space Seed," which is always the version I preferred. Granted, the TWOK character seems to be the more popular now, but Montalban was reduced there to an operatic, scenery-chewing attempt to get something out of a two-dimensional villain (but then, he was "mad" - aren't they always just? :lol:).
They should have left him as John Harrison and mentioned he was one of Khan's people. That would have been sufficient.
 
I think nitpicking the Khan actors' ethnicity is a little silly, especially on a BBS that is into science fiction, emphasis on fiction. What, you can't suspend disbelief for a couple hours?

I think way too much emphasis is placed on race and/or skin color by the fans, for crying out loud. If there isn't an actor with the "correct" ethnicity that the filmmakers like, is it so big a sin to cast someone else?

What if they'd cast a Native American actor for Khan, or a woman? Whose heads would be exploding then?

Maybe remember to take your meds before watching this stuff, because none of it comes across as approaching any form of reality as we know it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is entertainment. Enjoy it for what it is, or don't. But don't expect Paramount to do anything other than what they've always done, i.e. make movies.
 
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Wow, Star Trek is fiction? Suspend disbelief? Those are stunning insights, dude, I can't believe nobody's thought to bring those up or address them before. Well done.
 
You're not the only one; MILLIONS of people across the planet loved the movie (and the previous one), myself included. Who hates both movies? IMHO, people who treat Star Trek as a religion and think that Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman somehow violated sacred tenets and are apostates who've violated the purity of it, as I've said before.

All that, you I' and other who like the movies can do is just keep on liking them and pay the people who don't no mind, they're in the minority, and the wrong side of things, and they know it.
I hate the movies because they're badly-written, poorly-acted, and practically nothing about them makes any sense. STiD did have some nice musical passages, though.

I don't hate the movies, but -from a writing, non-Trek standpoint - the characters are not really growing. While I enjoy the actors, the sets, the music....we are presented with characters that I don't care about. For example:

*Kirk is an immature douche, and -after a few months - gets to command a ship of 400+ people. Also, he uses his command to get into the panties of females.

*Spock is prone to violent outbursts at various times, and we don't get how he and Kirk suddenly got along.

*Uhura is tough and sexy, but her relevance mainly comes into play when it involves her boyfriend, Spock.

*Sulu has a bit more to do actionwise, but still a minor supporting character.

*Chekov has a lot more to do actionwise, but still a minor supporting character.

*Scotty actually had a good moment in STID when he asked to the extent 'Are we supposed to be explorers?' (And, yes, I enjoy his banter with Keener).

John Harrison would have made more sense to be a follower of Khan. (And even, we probably could have had Khan introduced in the next film). Even from a non-Trek point of view, it's like casting a white European actor as a character named Ling T'su and the writers say 'Go with it!' It is a huge plot point as to why a white guy has an Asian name. A huge plot point that isn't explained in the film.

Furthermore, classic Spock automatically assumes that nuSpock is talking about classic Khan. (Montalban's version, which...one could also ask in regards to him: 'How did he come across the name?')

For all the audience knew, Khan Noonien Singh in the Abramsverse could have been a woman or child - of any race or color - or an android, or alien, or 'something' that just took the name. Yet, classic Spock gives a load of exposition without reason.

And, for what reason where the Klingons in the story? They could have been taken out, and that time used for hero/villain character development.

I may be in the minority on this forum, but as for the "wrong" side if things? BS. There are lots of things I like that other people don't. As others here have said, it's all subjective.

Very correct, but there is a reason why Captain America 2 succeeded where the first film (or many superhero films) failed. It decided to tell a solid story with an actual goal, not insult the audience, make consistent characters that the audience will care about, etc...etc...etc.

However, Orci and Kurtzman also wrote the Transformers films...and there are people who love those films. Sooooo....


They should have left him as John Harrison and mentioned he was one of Khan's people. That would have been sufficient.

Agreed.

Wow, Star Trek is fiction? Suspend disbelief? Those are stunning insights, dude, I can't believe nobody's thought to bring those up or address them before. Well done.

:lol:
 
I don't hate the movies, but -from a writing, non-Trek standpoint - the characters are not really growing. While I enjoy the actors, the sets, the music....we are presented with characters that I don't care about. For example:

*Kirk is an immature douche, and -after a few months - gets to command a ship of 400+ people. Also, he uses his command to get into the panties of females.

*Spock is prone to violent outbursts at various times, and we don't get how he and Kirk suddenly got along.

*Uhura is tough and sexy, but her relevance mainly comes into play when it involves her boyfriend, Spock.

*Sulu has a bit more to do actionwise, but still a minor supporting character.

*Chekov has a lot more to do actionwise, but still a minor supporting character.

*Scotty actually had a good moment in STID when he asked to the extent 'Are we supposed to be explorers?' (And, yes, I enjoy his banter with Keener).

John Harrison would have made more sense to be a follower of Khan. (And even, we probably could have had Khan introduced in the next film). Even from a non-Trek point of view, it's like casting a white European actor as a character named Ling T'su and the writers say 'Go with it!' It is a huge plot point as to why a white guy has an Asian name. A huge plot point that isn't explained in the film.

Furthermore, classic Spock automatically assumes that nuSpock is talking about classic Khan. (Montalban's version, which...one could also ask in regards to him: 'How did he come across the name?')

For all the audience knew, Khan Noonien Singh in the Abramsverse could have been a woman or child - of any race or color - or an android, or alien, or 'something' that just took the name. Yet, classic Spock gives a load of exposition without reason.

And, for what reason where the Klingons in the story? They could have been taken out, and that time used for hero/villain character development.

The only things that really concern me personally about the movie are:

* Also Kirk and Spock suddenly getting along . I thought they should have been friends from the beginning of STID. And that's why Spock reporting him should have been so much more devastating to Kirk. And Kirk's death more devastating to Spock. In TOS you saw that they were friends from the beginning with a couple of lines of dialog.

* The Marcus vs Khan and the 72 torpedoes thing.

Mind you neither of these 'writing problems' are worse than the writing problems in the other Trek movies. Like Data pieces suddenly being able to be detected light years away (in NEM) or the Briar Patch or Genesis or the Nexus (nothing could be wackier than that)

I also don't care that much about the 'science', I overlook Kirk's racist remarks and the somewhat gratuitous scantily clad girls scenes. If they added scantily clad boy scenes as well (in context of course) I'd be happier.

I also thought the supporting characters got a lot more time in STID than they ever did in any of the other Trek movies.

I'm not worried about the Khan thing so much. If they hadn't whitened and deaged Khan and his followers in TWOK already it would have bothered me a bit more.
I would have a problem if they whitened someone like Dr Daystrom though. Wouldn't mind seeing him in the next movie but perhaps before his nervous breakdown.
 
I like ST'09 and STID. But I like them as stand-alone movies, which are not connected to Star Trek TOS.
I can accept this crew (nuKirk, nuSpock and nuOthers) as entirely new characters, which have no connection to original ones. Only in this case Reboot will be a good, enjoyable thing.
I think, the main problem with Reboot is, that "they" use old characters in new context and "they" sometimes rely on old background instead of developing new one.
For example, original Kirk and Spock are good friends, nearly brothers. nuKirk and nuSpock presumably are not so close friends, but Spock reacts on Kirk's death as if he is his brother ("they" used old background without developing it in new context).
Speaking about nuUhura, it's a real nightmare for true Trekkie. Original crew is based on three characters: Kirk, Spock and McCoy. It make sense. Kirk is very emotional, Spock is a very logical and McCoy is a force of balance between them. They need to be the same sex to avoid love conflicts. In nuTrek McCoy is replaced by Uhura. Maybe, it can be a good idea, but it should be well developed in new context. Currently nuUhura is irritative, sometimes stupid chatacter, if you are a true Trekkie.
But as I said, Reboot is good and enjoyable, if you don't think about it as something, which is related to TOS.
 
For example, original Kirk and Spock are good friends, nearly brothers. nuKirk and nuSpock presumably are not so close friends, but Spock reacts on Kirk's death as if he is his brother ("they" used old background without developing it in new context).

Actually, I disagree with that assessment because in the Abrams universe:

1) The reasons Kirk had for joining Starfleet was different from any known reasons in the Prime TOS universe.

2) While Spock's reasons probably are the same in both continuities at the start of the 2009 film; midway through Spock's mother is killed (something that didn't happen in the Prime universe); and his homeworld was destroyed.

3) In the Abram's version Captain Pike is a bigger influence on Both Kirk and Spock. Also events for Spock are slightly different because in the Prime TOS Universe at this time, Spock had been serving with Pike out in deep space, and had yet to meet Kirk. Kirk didn't meet Pike until later as Kirk's lines regarding his meeting of Pike in reply to a question from Commodore Mendez was "Once. When I took over the Enterprise from him." - source: "The Menagerie".

4) Kirk and Spock are clearly NOT getting along for most of the 2009 film. They start to develop more of a relationship when "Prime/Old" Spock speaks to nu-Kirk about the past as he remembers it; and later "Prime/Old" Spock counsels nu-Spock about that past too, when nu-Spock considers resigning from Star Fleet to help Vulcan survivors find a new home, etc.

Enfd result: In ST:ID - yes, Kirk and Spock have indeed developed more of a 'friendship' (which was both tested in ways and strengthened as the film progressed) but it was DEFINITELY developed in a new context.
 
Mind you neither of these 'writing problems' are worse than the writing problems in the other Trek movies. Like Data pieces suddenly being able to be detected light years away (in NEM) or the Briar Patch or Genesis or the Nexus (nothing could be wackier than that)

Yeah, but those three films sucked. Claiming that Into Darkness is better than Generations, Insurrection, or Nemesis is just damning it with false praise.
 
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