I just realized why I rate TMP as the best movie!
- Thread starter webb3201
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I'd say they were all very much themselves in STII. Kirk had changed, but he wasn't Shatner yet.
Star Trek IV was when it stopped being about Kirk and the gang the being about Shatner and the gang. Up to then, it never really felt like I was watching the actors rather then the characters.
Star Trek VI *almost* feels right, but not quite. The TOS characters never really recovered from the goofy feeling of TVH.
Star Trek VI *almost* feels right, but not quite. The TOS characters never really recovered from the goofy feeling of TVH.
TMP was fantastic, period
I'm with you guys when you say Shatner comes across as Shatner rather than Kirk in the films following "The Search For Spock". I especially have difficulty with this in "The Final Frontier", which is made harder knowing he [Shatner] directed it himself. Terrible movie. In VI however it feels more like Kirk & the Gang again, but somehow it just isn't as convincing as the first three films.
As for TMP, I appreciate that as the most ambitious and dignified film. As the years pass by I notice it is climbing in my list of Star Trek movie rankings.
As for TMP, I appreciate that as the most ambitious and dignified film. As the years pass by I notice it is climbing in my list of Star Trek movie rankings.
Or maybe TMP is the best Star Trek movie because it's the only one that's actually STAR TREK!?
No. They're all Star Trek, from TMP right down to NEM. Star Trek is not exclusively erudite art, as much as many fans may want it to be, Star Trek is a media franchise.
However, the film does address science fiction ideas - and Star Trek's overall philosophy - a lot more ably than many of its sequels.
No its the least Trek like of the bunch. Its an attempt at pretension and takes itself way to seriously - not to mention almost a carbon copy of an episode of the original series minus Roykirk.
Sharr
This is exactly why I never truly liked TNG's movies. I always felt the actors were simply playing themselves instead of playing their characters. It seemed like they were always mugging at each other onscrean as if to say, "Isn't this a hoot that we're makin' movies?" Blech...
I don't think the performances are wooden or stiff; what we're seeing is familiar characters clumsily trying to get to where they think they belong, and awkwardly stumbling through missteps. By the last reels they're just like their old selves. Spock reconnects with Kirk, Kirk gets his old confidence back and stops bucking Decker, etc.
I am not Spock; I am Spock. I Spock, therefore I am.
I think a variable amount of campiness is an element of Star Trek, and TMP has the least. Although I see where you're coming from, I disagree. I don't think the actors are doing a lesser job in TVH. The campy elements there are part of the range of those characters, which some people prefer and others don't.
Was the advertising leading up to TMP pretentious? I was too busy playing with crayons at the time. I don't think the film itself is pretentious.
I think a variable amount of campiness is an element of Star Trek, and TMP has the least. Although I see where you're coming from, I disagree. I don't think the actors are doing a lesser job in TVH. The campy elements there are part of the range of those characters, which some people prefer and others don't.
Same point here - I completely disagree that the characters aren't there, and it's just the actors having a lark. In my view, what's being said is, "I don't like campy humor (which is fine), therefore the acting in ______ is inferior(the point I disagree with). Those campier elements were well established in both series, and for some actors, being funny is a bigger challenge than being dramatic. It's just a different part of their skills as performers, not necessarily lesser.
Was the advertising leading up to TMP pretentious? I was too busy playing with crayons at the time. I don't think the film itself is pretentious.
Its written all over it, the reinterpretation of Star Trek as "2001" in the muted whites and grays. The joining with the machine. For me this movies biggest problem is, its just not very fun.
Sharr
Of course it's pretentious. Damn straight. And every time someone tries to do something that is in anyway serious, we should all stand up and shout them down for being pretentious. Such mental evacuation is good for the colon.
Oh its not that it was "serious" however you define serious to be when you're talking about space adventure and aliens with bumpy heads.
Its the attempt at respinning Trek as a work by Clarke when it was an action adventure tv show, and doing it by mostly reworking "The Changling" for the big screen.
Trek could be serious, but usually there was an amount of lightness there as well which is so lost in TMP (I find the title a put off as well - but that's another thread).
Star Trek isn't a work by Author C. Clarke and shouldn't be remade to be that. If you want to try serious then at least do it in the context of the universe you established.
Sharr
Honestly, I don't see why it should aspire to the best in science fiction once in a while. This is not its once and only destiny, but it was a notable evolution of it. I recall Douglas Trumbull praising this narrative turn on the TMP DVD commentary (going from stories about tribbles to a surprisingly serious sci-fi narrative), and I have to agree with him.
That's not to say there isn't a place for action-adventure, pulp and camp. But I think this kind of sci-fi is every bit as relevant - or it should and used to be.
In its own context it should try to be "The best in science fiction" its not acting in its own context regarding TMP.
I don't take it as a given that "2001" is the best in science fiction either or rather I don't take Clarke as our default golden measure here. There's alot more to an interesting thoughtful story then getting all the "science right" (which TMP not matter what would fail anyhow...)
TMP first and foremost fails for me as entertainment its true reason for being, this is its most unforgivable sin. Best analogue here when "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace" (well many of the prequels) made an attempt at political commentary - it was totally out of place in the Star Wars universe the same as these supposed "higher aspirations".
Sharr
