I finally watched Nemesis...

[Peach Wookiee]

Okay, everyone, I finally sat down and watched Star Trek: Nemesis this evening. I hadn't wanted to watch because I didn't want to have to take sides. But tonight, I chose to watch it and watch the nuTrek with a clear conscience.

My verdict is this... It was a decent movie with some flaws in it. I think the B4 plot could've been better if they had to have it, but it wasn't horrid. I came close to crying when Data sacrificed himself, partly because I loved the character. I didn't mind the clone plot so much, but I also thought that it could've been better executed. This movie wasn't bad, but it could've been so much more. Even so...

I liked it.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

'Nemesis' has a bad reputation on this forum. Most likely, this came about due to its greatest flaw: the pacing, atmosphere - it lacks suspense, the characters and situations never convey urgency or high stakes on an emotional level.

Of course, 'Nemesis' is better than some other star trek movies or episodes.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I loved Nemesis. I still do. I first saw it on video (the last VHS I think I ever got), and I went into it without the slightest idea of the story at all. I thought it great fun, and an enjoyable last adventure for the aging TNG gang.

Years later I go online and everyone hates it

But I've never had popular tastes

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I was online when the movie came out and it really got panned here and not without cause. But watching it now, I really did like it. I wish there had been more to the movie than what we got.

 

[Captrek]

It copies the plot of TWOK in great detail, and even includes a scene that was intended for TWOK but left out for budgetary reasons. Unfortunately for Nemesis, TWOK is an amazing film, and Nemesis suffers greatly by the comparison.

It could have worked if they’d had more fun with it. It’s the last adventure of the TNG cast, and if they had played it off as “We’re going to sign off by having some fun revisiting a much-loved TOS adventure with the TNG cast,” sort of high-tech fanfic, it might have been better received. By playing it straight, it invites comparison with the original and comes across as a pointless remake that rips the soul out of the original.

 

[Whill]

Nemesis

I'm not a hater and I'm not gonna waste time being all nasty and self-rightous by stating an entertainment product has "flaws" as is so common on this board. This is all just my personal response as a Trek fan and there is nothing wrong with you if you like the movie or have a different opinion than me. If you like Nemesis, I'm truly happy for you!

I didn't care for the clone plot. IMO it is utterly rediculous that a human clone of anyone, even Picard, could gain control of the Romulan Empire. I thought Remans were a cool idea in general. Remans rebel and take control of the Empire? Sure. But they have a clone of a human (any human) in charge? No, I don't think so. And Shinzon looks nothing like Picard. Previous broken noses that didn't heal correctly still do not allow me to suspend disbelief enough to accept that is a clone of Picard, but maybe if he wasn't in charge of the Romulan Empire I could accept it more.

And Data has already had a long-lost android "brother" so B4 is just a lame regurgitation of Lore. Also, since B4 is supposed to be the first android, it is just a tad too corny for him to be given an "ironic" name that only makes sense retroactively (He wasn't "before" anything else until the brothers were later created).

I really don't have a problem with the similarities to TWOK in general. But since the movie as a whole didn't work for me that does just come across as a lame imitation.

I remember watching the movie in the theater the first time and thinking how out of place the dune buggy scene seems for Star Trek, and then after the movie was over thinking back that the dune buggies were the coolest part of the film!

So in my personal canon, Nemesis has been banished to an lame alternate universe and Insurrection was the final farewell for the TNG crew. In my mind, Nemesis did not happen, Data did not die, Picard accepted promotion to Admiral to eliminate the danger of further corruption in Starfleet Command, and Riker is finally Captain of the Enterprise E (but Riker and Troi are still together) in the timeline leading up to the 24th century mind-meld flashback in the 2009 film.

Glad you could find Nemesis entertaining though!

 

[Starbreaker]

I liked the movie when I first saw it, but I was completely addicted to Star Trek at the time. I now find the dune buggy sequence, the B4 plot, and several other things to be really silly. I also don't appreciate how they brought in somebody unfamiliar with Star Trek to direct.

 

[Kelthaz]

I'm sure we've all seen this by now, but it's mandatory to post this in every Nemesis thread.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html

 

[Itisnotlogical]

I'm sure we've all seen this by now, but it's mandatory to post this in every Nemesis thread.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html

It could have been a clever diss, at least. They didn't have to spell the damned thing out step-by-step.

By the way... how come in allllll the time since it's been released, no one's made fun of Revenge of the Sith? There were times I was torn between tears and chuckles because of the way they hopelessly abused what was a rather sound plot with recycles like "NOOOOOOOO" and "My hand just got cut off, because Jedi are trained to cut hands off instead of heads!", in addition to just plain terrible acting. Yes, I'm looking at you, Hayden Christensen.

 

[Kelthaz]

Red Letter Media is working on one, but I agree with you. It's been five years and no big name mockery of RotS. Star Wars fandom is losing it.

 

[Dukhat]

Nemesis is an OK movie. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but then again none of the TNG movies do. At least it's re-watchable, unlike Star Trek V. I own that movie on DVD (like every other Trek film), but I'm pretty sure that DVD will never enter my DVD player.

 

[JarodRussell]

I've come to the conclusion that Nemesis was intentionally made to appear weary and tired (I know that Baird instructed Goldsmith to make the score sound sad and bitter, because it was the final voyage and such... in contrast to the soundtrack of TUC, for example, which was dark, but still optimistic and joyful), and that it's the first TNG movie were the cast doesn't have ANY chemistry on screen (maybe because they didn't like the atmosphere on set this time at all). And then in addition Tom Hardy as the worst villain I've ever seen. Which is why I can't sit through the movie.

One subtle thing that I noticed is that Frakes directing style in First Contact and Insurrection was relatively vivid and fast paced. Every time there is a long exposition in FC or INS, people are walking from A to B, the camera is constantly moving, or something else happens that makes it interesting. Scenes in the briefing room were kept very short. In Nemesis, all these exposition scenes were static, very long, and with people sitting around without anything else going on, and hence those scenes were pretty boring.

 

[Captain Rob]

Watch it again with Stuart Baird's commentary track turned on. And count how many times he says: "We didn't have time to do this. We didn't have money to do that. Or we didn't have the time and the money to do this."
NEM had many excellent parts which didn't add up to a very good whole.
My biggest nitpick: When Picard is about to beam over to the Scimitar he orders for them to put as much distance as possible away from the Scimitar. I have a better suggestion: "MOVE OUT OF THE G** D***** WAY!"

 

[RAMA]

I'm sure we've all seen this by now, but it's mandatory to post this in every Nemesis thread.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html

Actually a lot of that commentary isn't true at all...sigh

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Okay, everyone, I finally sat down and watched Star Trek: Nemesis this evening. I hadn't wanted to watch because I didn't want to have to take sides. But tonight, I chose to watch it and watch the nuTrek with a clear conscience.

My verdict is this... It was a decent movie with some flaws in it. I think the B4 plot could've been better if they had to have it, but it wasn't horrid. I came close to crying when Data sacrificed himself, partly because I loved the character. I didn't mind the clone plot so much, but I also thought that it could've been better executed. This movie wasn't bad, but it could've been so much more. Even so...

I liked it.

The B4 plot is the greatest weakness, but not as a lure, but in simple continuity..if you are not a Trekker, then you really wouldn't see it as a "flaw"! (in fact non-trekkers rate the movie highly...and even on IMDB the movie rates an ok "6.4" hardly a bomb!)I actually thought most of the "execution" of the movie was fine, it had a better scale ad better production design than any movie except for maybe STTMP up till that time...there were a few correctable script errors that could have been changed in one or two lines...so in that sense, the problems with Nemesis are not that egregious compared to say...STGEN or STV. YES, it is not a great movie, yes it should have been better, but its not even close to being the worst ST film or story ever as the overreacting, knee jerk fans would claim...the very same ones who said Star Trek is dead....right before the new movie made $600 million in box office and DVD grosses. I wouldn't listen to closely too the whiners.

Edit: One more thought: I noticed the summary reinforces ST Nemesis does in fact follow a lot of conventions of modern "action" movies but in this it isn't really alone...maybe its not as "smart" as some TV scripts, but in trying to keep up with modern tastes, the action quotient was increased...I wouldn't really count it as a flaw, and its deliberate.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

I'm sure we've all seen this by now, but it's mandatory to post this in every Nemesis thread.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html

Actually a lot of that commentary isn't true at all...sigh

RAMA

Like?

 

[Jax]

'Nemesis' is better than some other star trek movies

I am a great defender of Star Trek but Nemesis is the one of the worst pieces of the entire franchise and is easily the worse movie of the 11. The plot is half baked with more holes than a bullet ridden corpse, which is just what Nemesis is.

The only good thing to come out of that was the rethinking of the franchise leading to J.J's Star Trek in 2009.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Nemesis

since B4 is supposed to be the first android, it is just a tad too corny for him to be given an "ironic" name that only makes sense retroactively (He wasn't "before" anything else until the brothers were later created).

Actually, the B-4 is well-named. In the episode "Inheritance", the Juliana Tainer android mentions that there were three prototypes, then Lore, then Data. If we assume the protoypes were B-1, B-2 and B-3 ("B" for Beta test?), then a fourth prototype, unknown to Juliana and missing from Soong's lab, would be "B-4". Prototypes always come "before" the first successful, working models.

The original "Nemesis" script called this character "B-9" (as in "benign") but they switched names for the final draft - and the new name makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Captrek]

I'm sure we've all seen this by now, but it's mandatory to post this in every Nemesis thread.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html

Actually a lot of that commentary isn't true at all...sigh

True or not, it’s pretty damn funny.

in trying to keep up with modern tastes, the action quotient was increased...I wouldn't really count it as a flaw, and its deliberate.

I don’t think anybody’s complaining about the amount of action. The complaints have more to do with the poor execution of the action scenes and the dumb script on which the action scenes are hung.

If the action is done well enough, a dumb script can be overlooked. TUC, despite having a few interesting ideas, has a pretty retarded script if you let yourself think about it. However, TUC has style — the cast (other than Catrall, who is terrible) is in top form, the production design is very attractive, the musical score is terrific, and the action scenes are directed with great flair by Nicholas Meyer. That allows viewers to get caught up in it instead of noticing the problems with the screenplay and makes TUC one of the more popular films in the franchise.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I also don't appreciate how they brought in somebody unfamiliar with Star Trek to direct.

You mean like Robert Wise or Nick Meyer?