I finally got to watch Season 3

ToddKent

Captain
Captain
Instead of streaming, I wait for the DVDs to come out to watch the newer shows. I end up getting various things spoiled but that's on me. (That being said, I'd prefer to avoid SNW S2 and LD S4 spoilers.)

I was able to finally see Picard Season 3 so here are some of my thoughts:

-Initially I was somewhat irritated at the rehash of the David Marcus storyline (our hero captain has a long lost son). I honestly expected there to be some realization in the season that Jack was actually not Picard's son, but that would have been a rehash of the Bloodlines episode so it was a no-win scenario for me.

-One of the spoilers I got was the Captain Shaw "No" scene. I saw meme after meme about it and thought it would be some huge moment on the show but when it happened it was such a small thing. I wonder why it struck such a chord with so many people?

-There was absolutely no reason for 7 of 9 to be in season 2 and hardly any reason to have her in this season other than to set her up for a spinoff.

-And speaking of Seven, I thought it was odd to have a subplot where she prefers her Borg name to her human name. I can understand why she wouldn't have any connection to her human name but latching on to the name given to her by her abusers was a weird choice. It would be like if Kunta Kinte wanted people to call him "Toby."

-It was cool to see Worf chopping peoples' heads off instead of constantly getting his ass kicked.

-I was disappointed with the reveal that the Borg were the bad guys yet again. As soon as we saw the cube behind the red door I thought, "That shouldn't be a problem. The new Borg Queen is Picard's friend so what's the issue?" But for some reason the "Consent Borgs" weren't even mentioned. I did like that the OG Borgs were still essentially decimated and this was their last ditch effort. And the new Borg Queen design was cool. But still, did we really need to have the Borg in all three seasons of this show?

-The new Changelings group was interesting but I wish they went deeper into the concept. Does their new "partially solid" status make them more susceptible to injury? Does it limit their ability to shape shift? How many of them are there? What is their relationship with the Changelings in the Great Link, if any? Were they recruiting other Changelings to their cause? Were Vadic's underlings wearing masks or is that just what they looked like? For me, it would have been more interesting if the Changelings were the only antagonist. They had a great motivation and backstory and I think there's a lot more to explore there.

-So Tuvok was captured, replaced, presumably tortured, rescued, and then immediately put in charge of giving Seven her promotion?

-I'll pay closer attention in a rewatch but was the Enterprise-F destroyed? It just seemed odd that they were ready to go ahead and christen the Titan as the Enterprise-G. I didn't think that was particularly necessary. There are already too many Enterprises. I like the idea of building up several different hero ships across the franchise so I would have been happy to see Seven captain the Titan. Or if you have to renamed it, how about Voyager-A (or whatever letter they're up to)?

-Also, is it me or would it make more sense for Raffi to be Captain?

-And is Jack an actual doctor? I thought it would have made sense to assign him to sick bay instead of sitting in the Nepo Chair on the bridge.

-For some insane reason, when they brought Ro back they decided to either not give her Bajoran makeup or make it so minuscule as to be unnoticeable. I spent that entire episode staring at the bridge of her nose and didn't hear one word the actress said.

-So the Data that died in Season 1 was the copy that was downloaded into B4 in Nemesis? And this new Seaason 3 Data was a copy of that copy? Plus Lore, Lal, a few Soongs, and maybe some others? Did I follow that correctly? Any Soji in there?

-I hated that they killed Picard in Season 1 only to immediately resurrect him in a robo body. I thought it would be ignored for the rest of the series but they were actually able to use that as an interesting plot point this season (with the stealing of his corpse).

-The refurbished Enterrpise-D is maybe only 25% original parts right? It's definitely in the "ship of Theseus" territory.

-So when they say they gathered the "entire fleet" at Pioneer Day, I assume they mean "1/100th of the fleet"

-Was New Data wearing a Starfleet uniform or was it a jacket made to look like a uniform? I got the impression that Geordi (and Seven and the Titan crew) was the only character in uniform but there's aways variants out there.

That's all I can think of now. Maybe I'll have more thoughts later.
 
-I was disappointed with the reveal that the Borg were the bad guys yet again. As soon as we saw the cube behind the red door I thought, "That shouldn't be a problem. The new Borg Queen is Picard's friend so what's the issue?" But for some reason the "Consent Borgs" weren't even mentioned. I did like that the OG Borgs were still essentially decimated and this was their last ditch effort. And the new Borg Queen design was cool. But still, did we really need to have the Borg in all three seasons of this show?
Well, Shaw notes that they should "forget that shit with the Borg and the anomaly. The real Borg are still out there." And he is partially right, since Season 2 involved time travel shenanigans, and Jurati's Borg were not the whole remaining collective, which we saw in Season 1 was still falling apart. But, did we need more Borg.

Shaw: No.
For me, it would have been more interesting if the Changelings were the only antagonist. They had a great motivation and backstory and I think there's a lot more to explore there.
I agree on this.
-And is Jack an actual doctor? I thought it would have made sense to assign him to sick bay instead of sitting in the Nepo Chair on the bridge.
Yes, he is. As well as a scoundrel and wanted in several systems yet somehow gets a pass. Nepotism indeed.
-So the Data that died in Season 1 was the copy that was downloaded into B4 in Nemesis? And this new Seaason 3 Data was a copy of that copy? Plus Lore, Lal, a few Soongs, and maybe some others? Did I follow that correctly? Any Soji in there?
The copy in Season 1 was based off of a "positronic neuron" that was copied and so was only a fragment. This Season 3 amalgamation was B-4, Data and Lore, and a mash up of memories solidifying in to a new yet familiar Data.
 
-One of the spoilers I got was the Captain Shaw "No" scene. I saw meme after meme about it and thought it would be some huge moment on the show but when it happened it was such a small thing. I wonder why it struck such a chord with so many people?

Honestly, besides how hilarious it was to see the deadpan "No" to Picard, it was all about the trope inversion.
Picard and Riker tend to get a lot of hero worship, a lot of folk who instinctively trust them on reputation. I mean, imagine if instead of Shaw it were someone who had been a junior officer or lower decker on the Enterprise D? When so many stories involving Picard have the crew get emotionally swayed by his conviction and force of character, seeing Shaw so plainly immune to it was refreshing.
 
-I'll pay closer attention in a rewatch but was the Enterprise-F destroyed? It just seemed odd that they were ready to go ahead and christen the Titan as the Enterprise-G. I didn't think that was particularly necessary. There are already too many Enterprises. I like the idea of building up several different hero ships across the franchise so I would have been happy to see Seven captain the Titan. Or if you have to renamed it, how about Voyager-A (or whatever letter they're up to)?

The Enterprise-F was already scheduled to be decommisioned. She must have taken quite a beating in her relatively short lifespan, but it's possible. For all we know she got badly damaged and her spaceframe is just not good enough anymore.
So yeah.... We're not sure if she survived or not. But even if she did, she was still getting retired.

As for Titan becoming the E-G..... I'm ok with it. I would have preferred she just remained the Titan-A and Seven being in command. But meh. They're never going to follow up on that storyline so I'm cool with it.
 
I pretty much agree entirely with OP.

The Borg thing at the end reminded me of the "again with the klingons" Simpsons bit.

Raffi 100% should be captain by now, at least.

Changelings were a far more compelling antagonist.

I know a lot of people like the Legacy idea, but I felt kinda like Picard as a series hit a lot of dead ends.

Too many cooks and Stewart's half baked ideas kinda got in the way. In retrospect, I think s1 was the most compelling, but it certainly did not stick the landing.
 
-And speaking of Seven, I thought it was odd to have a subplot where she prefers her Borg name to her human name. I can understand why she wouldn't have any connection to her human name but latching on to the name given to her by her abusers was a weird choice. It would be like if Kunta Kinte wanted people to call him "Toby."

Legal name = Unpleasant reminder of her parents.

She's had a grudge against her parents ever since Voyager (Her father's reckless behavior was the reason the family was assimilated in the first place. The family's ship got too close to a Borg cube for its own good.)

Then there was Janeway spending four years trying to turn her into a human being again (in Seven's mind, Annika Hansen died the day she was assimilated).

-Also, is it me or would it make more sense for Raffi to be Captain?

Raffi might not necessarily want the responsibility of being Captain (she might not think herself ready).

She was in SF intelligence. She didn't have Seven's relationship with the crew.

Raffi had issues. She was a loner for so many years. She's now at that point in her life where she wants to be there for her granddaughter.
 
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-Also, is it me or would it make more sense for Raffi to be Captain?
It's not just you. Making sense was never streaming Trek's calling card.

Raffi might not necessarily want the responsibility of being Captain (she might not think herself ready).

She was in SF intelligence. She didn't have Seven's relationship with the crew.

Raffi had issues. She was a loner for so many years. She's now at that point in her life where she wants to be there for her granddaughter.
It all depends on the writing. A writer with some talent could've had Raffi want those responsibilities and not cater to fan wank. One of the great dynamics for a potential good character is they have issues and see how it's resolved or how they handle the struggle. Those traits shouldn't be a deterrent from her being Captain. I'm not a fan of the popularity contest promotion because it's weak; something CBSTrek has a good grip on.

-I'll pay closer attention in a rewatch but was the Enterprise-F destroyed? It just seemed odd that they were ready to go ahead and christen the Titan as the Enterprise-G. I didn't think that was particularly necessary. There are already too many Enterprises. I like the idea of building up several different hero ships across the franchise so I would have been happy to see Seven captain the Titan. Or if you have to renamed it, how about Voyager-A (or whatever letter they're up to)?

Absolutely, Seven of Nine has no history with the Enterprise and its ridiculous for her to carry the mantle. She was the sex symbol for a failing Star Trek show called Voyager; I wouldn't mind the name change from Titan to Voyager, and the Alphabet thing isn't really necessary since we've seen other ships carry similar names but have different registry numbers. Season 3, or CBSAA Trek in general, is not interested in exploring new ideas but rather gather a conglomerate full of remember berries and hoping it'll stick.

-So the Data that died in Season 1 was the copy that was downloaded into B4 in Nemesis? And this new Seaason 3 Data was a copy of that copy? Plus Lore, Lal, a few Soongs, and maybe some others? Did I follow that correctly? Any Soji in there?

-I hated that they killed Picard in Season 1 only to immediately resurrect him in a robo body. I thought it would be ignored for the rest of the series but they were actually able to use that as an interesting plot point this season (with the stealing of his corpse).

-The refurbished Enterrpise-D is maybe only 25% original parts right? It's definitely in the "ship of Theseus" territory.

-So when they say they gathered the "entire fleet" at Pioneer Day, I assume they mean "1/100th of the fleet"

-Was New Data wearing a Starfleet uniform or was it a jacket made to look like a uniform? I got the impression that Geordi (and Seven and the Titan crew) was the only character in uniform but there's aways variants out there.

That's all I can think of now. Maybe I'll have more thoughts later.
Well... at least the special effects looked good. I didn't like the Picard body swap but season 3 managed to form a plot out of it. The Data outfit was a way to excuse Brent Spiner's weight gain, but I loved the way Michael Dorn/ Worf treated that version of Data, knowing full well THAT IS NOT the Data he once served with.
 
Raffi might not necessarily want the responsibility of being Captain (she might not think herself ready).
I don't think she wants it. I think she, like Mariner, feels burned by the higher ups so operating with Starfleet Intelligence is a different way to make that important difference. Becoming a captain should not be everyone's goal.

It's been lionized, even in universe, but it doesn't make sense.
 
It all depends on the writing. A writer with some talent could've had Raffi want those responsibilities and not cater to fan wank. One of the great dynamics for a potential good character is they have issues and see how it's resolved or how they handle the struggle.

She. Doesn't. Want. It.

Not everyone wants to be management. There are people who are happiest being in supporting roles. That's life.

Seven of Nine has no history with the Enterprise and its ridiculous for her to carry the mantle.

She's "the best of what's left".

All the people who WERE worthy were/are (1) retired, (2) killed during the Dominion War or (3) killed during the Frontier Day attack.

It's a classic dynamic. Look at Star Wars. Who would've expected Luke Skywalker -- some scrawny kid from nowhere -- to be The One to fight Darth Vader?

What about The Matrix? Neo starts out the movie as pretty much an average guy. Who would've expected him to be The One to fight Agent Smith and the Matrix?

Seven saved the ship. She cobbled together a tactical assault team composed of Raffi, a cook, the ship's doctor, and several medical officers! She did all that AND led them into battle!


She was the sex symbol for a failing Star Trek show called Voyager.

Jeri Ryan can ACT. She was on Picard for a reason.

Watch "Infinite Regress" on Voyager. She cycled through humans, Klingons, and Ferengis all within a matter of seconds. The woman turned on a dime!

If you only see Seven as a piece of a$&, you haven't seen Voyager.


Season 3, or CBSAA Trek in general, is not interested in exploring new ideas but rather gather a conglomerate full of remember berries and hoping it'll stick.

Blame Terry Matalas.

The TNG reunion was HIS idea.
 
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Isn’t she the first officer though? That’s definitely management. People who don’t want to be president rarely run for vice president.

Maybe she wants out of Starfleet Intelligence?

She's now a grandmother. She wants to live to see her granddaughter.

Seven trusts her. She knows the bureaucracy (A big plus for Seven. We saw that in S1 when she got Picard his diplomatic credentials.) She can get stuff done.
 
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She. Doesn't. Want. It.

Not everyone wants to be management. There are people who are happiest being in supporting roles. That's life.

100%, I still think the writing for Raffi could've been a lot better because I think she has potential. I see that with all of the Picard season 1 -2 characters and I wish there was room for them in season 3.

She's "the best of what's left". Jeri Ryan can ACT.
100% she was what she was, and she's a good actress but I wish Voyager didn't make her standout with that outfit she wore. I wish everyone in the cast men and women wore that outfit but by design Ryan was cast to sell her assets for more viewership.

If you only see Seven as a piece of a$&, you haven't seen Voyager.
I think it was the genesis for why she was cast, replacing a very compelling character, to me, Kes. There was so much that show could've done with her IMO and I've read some brilliant work from fans who cherished that character but she was replaced for T & A and Ryan had that in spades. I agree with you she was a good actress and I thought her stint on Picard was ok but I'd rather her as a special guest throughout the series than a cast member. My interests in Picard was never about Seven of Nine, it was for Jean Luc Picard and the new characters who was around him. She's Voyager, and was not TNG.
 
Isn’t she the first officer though? That’s definitely management. People who don’t want to be president rarely run for vice president.
It's called facets and I think there are layers of Raffi's personality and when put together we have a very interesting character. She has a lot of experience and I thought the showrunners were too interested in giving Seven an undeserved rank because she's a fan favorite. I wouldn't have minded Raffi as the Captain while Seven worked her way up.
 
I think it was the genesis for why she was cast, replacing a very compelling character, to me, Kes.

Kes was warmed-over Troi (Every other line out of her mouth was "I feel ..." or "I sense ..." :rolleyes: ).


100%, I still think the writing for Raffi could've been a lot better because I think she has potential. I see that with all of the Picard season 1 -2 characters and I wish there was room for them in season 3.

You'd have her become Captain even though she (1) didn't want the job, (2) was new to the ship, and (3) didn't know the crew.


I wouldn't have minded Raffi as the Captain while Seven worked her way up.

Seven was first officer. It was painful enough watching Sisko and Michael Burnham fight their way to their fourth pip. :shifty:

Being a Captain is not something that can be done with on-the-job training. :rolleyes:
 
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Kes was warmed-over Troi (Every other line out of her mouth was "I feel ..." or "I sense ..." :rolleyes: ).
LOL. No way, Kes was like that.

You'd have her become Captain even though she (1) didn't want the job, (2) was new to the ship, and (3) didn't know the crew.

I was expecting more from the Picard created characters and I wanted more for Raffi besides a relationship. There was potential for growth but I didn't think Seven deserved that rank of Commander it was a popularity promotion.

Seven was first officer. It was painful enough watching Sisko and Michael Burnham fight their way to their fourth pip. :shifty:

Being a Captain is not something that can be done with on-the-job training. :rolleyes:
Seven was first officer and became Captain because the writing dictated that.
 
I didn't think Seven deserved that rank of Commander it was a popularity promotion.

Seven is too old and too experienced to start as an Ensign (She had eighteen years of military experience with the Borg. She served four years on Voyager. She's a scientist and an engineer with expertise in Borg technology.)

Then there's the issue of over half of Titan's crew being assimilated in Picard S3 ... :whistle:

Voyager ended in 2001. How much longer are you going to keep punishing Seven for what she was on Voyager?

Let it go. Whining on a message board is not going to change the past.
 
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Seven was first officer. It was painful enough watching Sisko and Michael Burnham fight their way to their fourth pip. :shifty:

Being a Captain is not something that can be done with on-the-job training. :rolleyes:
Honestly, it's one of those things that not every officer needs to be. Staff officers, support officers, and the like are just as needed as commanding officers.
 
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