Spoilers I finally exposed myself to The Animated Series

[FormerLurker]

To extend the thread drift ever further:

A staggering coincidence is plausible when you realize the second season of Buck Rogers was also a deliberate attempt to imitate Star Trek, while not bothering to see if the parts they were throwing at the wall were the ones that made Star Trek so popular. It's no wonder so little of it stuck, to the point the second season was cut short. 17 episodes, I believe, rather than the full 24 expected at the time.

And while Gil Gerard had his egotistical moments, the gender equality of season one was mostly his doing. He started with the pilot. During the reception scene, they had to delay production for a couple of days because when GG first walked on the set, all the women except Erin Gray were in gowns and dresses, and only the men were in uniform. He stormed off the set and demanded that at least a third of the couples go back to wardrobe and get their costumes reversed, so the women were represented in the military. He was furious that it was assumed that only the men would be serving, except for Wilma. Erin Gray had great fun relating that tale when they were both in Denver at the Star Trek convention about a decade ago.

 

[Christopher]

A staggering coincidence is plausible when you realize the second season of Buck Rogers was also a deliberate attempt to imitate Star Trek, while not bothering to see if the parts they were throwing at the wall were the ones that made Star Trek so popular.

I don't think it is a coincidence -- that's my point. Galaxy Quest isn't exclusively a riff on Star Trek, it's a riff on tropes from decades' worth of classic SFTV from Irwin Allen's shows in the '60s to Glen Larson's in the '80s. Heck, Dr. Lazarus may have been almost exactly the same character as Hawk from Buck Rogers, but Alexander Dane had more in common with Space: 1999's Barry Morse, a distinguished British actor embarrassed by his association with a schlocky sci-fi show. And Star Trek never had a preteen boy genius crewmember (though Lost in Space and Galactica 1980 did) or had a non-East Asian actor playing an East Asian character like Tech Sergeant Chen (though lots of '60s and '70s shows had white actors in yellowface, David Carradine in Kung Fu being one of the most prominent examples).

It's no wonder so little of it stuck, to the point the second season was cut short. 17 episodes, I believe, rather than the full 24 expected at the time.

Buck season 2 had only 11 episodes, though the first two were 2 hours each, so that's the equivalent of 13 episodes.

And while Gil Gerard had his egotistical moments, the gender equality of season one was mostly his doing. He started with the pilot. During the reception scene, they had to delay production for a couple of days because when GG first walked on the set, all the women except Erin Gray were in gowns and dresses, and only the men were in uniform. He stormed off the set and demanded that at least a third of the couples go back to wardrobe and get their costumes reversed, so the women were represented in the military. He was furious that it was assumed that only the men would be serving, except for Wilma. Erin Gray had great fun relating that tale when they were both in Denver at the Star Trek convention about a decade ago.

I think a lot of the credit probably goes to story editor Alan Brennert and story consultant Anne Collins, since the strong and non-objectifying writing of female characters diminished toward the end of season 1, after they left the show.

 

[plynch]

How/where do you watch it? Havent seen it si nce 8th grade.

 

[FormerLurker]

I think a lot of the credit probably goes to story editor Alan Brennert and story consultant Anne Collins, since the strong and non-objectifying writing of female characters diminished toward the end of season 1, after they left the show.

I did say mostly. Gil Gerard has always been a firm believer in gender equality. That doesn't mean he's always been able to enforce it. He may have been the star of Buck Rogers, but he was just an actor. The money men made the decisions.

Though he did say that if they got to season three, the producers had promised him that not only would they go back to Earth, and do more like they'd done the first season, but that they'd also be more respectful of the fact that professional women are competent in their jobs, and deserve to look the part.

 

[Shawnster]

How/where do you watch it? Havent seen it si nce 8th grade.

I found the DVDs at a used video /game store a few years ago.

 

[Christopher]

How/where do you watch it? Havent seen it si nce 8th grade.

Buck Rogers? I borrowed the DVDs from the library. (Unfortunately, the season 1 DVD set only has the heavily cut-down theatrical version of the pilot, and the fuller, more coherent TV version of the pilot is only offered as a low-quality bonus feature on the last disc of the season 2 box set -- which was frustrating, because it meant that some things established only in the TV version were unclear to me until the end of my rewatch. I gather the Blu-Rays do it the other way around, though.)

 

[FormerLurker]

I have the complete series box set (hey, I LIKE the show), and I don't recall it having the full, series proper version of the pilot on it. I'll look again, but I don't think it's there. Which I was disappointed by. It explained so much of the background stuff that the theatrical version didn't need as a standalone show.

 

[Christopher]

I have the complete series box set (hey, I LIKE the show), and I don't recall it having the full, series proper version of the pilot on it. I'll look again, but I don't think it's there. Which I was disappointed by. It explained so much of the background stuff that the theatrical version didn't need as a standalone show.

Like I said, I found it as a bonus feature on the last disc of the season 2 set. I think it was a little hard to find -- I might've missed it if I hadn't known it was there.

 

[Marsden]

The full 2 seasons from 2004ish didn't have the TV version, that's the set I have. Then there was a rerelease in around 2014 that had the TV version with season 2.

My last disc of season 2 only has the one episode and no bonus show.

edit: information from wikipedia

On January 24, 2012, Universal Studios re-released Season One by itself in North America, as a six disc set. The discs were single-sided for this release, in contrast to the double-sided discs released in 2004. Season Two was re-released with single-sided discs on January 8, 2013. As a bonus feature, the second season set includes the television version of the original pilot film, "Awakening", the first time this version has been released on DVD.​

 

[Commishsleer]

My kids like the animated seies.
I loved a lot of the stories. I suppose my major criticism of it was that it lacked excitement. You didn't get the real life charisma of Shatner, Nimoys facial, posture or hand gestures (you know when you can tell whether Spock is upset or something subtly)

 

[Therin of Andor]

The magical watermelon-hued super-dee-duper weapon they just couldn't do as live action...

Kzinti Chuft-Captain, M'Ress and Arex by Ian McLean, on Flickr

... the glommer seemed a little too "kiddie"...

The glimmer is cool!


Glommer pounces by Ian McLean, on Flickr

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Galaxy Quest isn't exclusively a riff on Star Trek, it's a riff on tropes from decades' worth of classic SFTV from Irwin Allen's shows in the '60s to Glen Larson's in the '80s. Heck, Dr. Lazarus may have been almost exactly the same character as Hawk from Buck Rogers, but Alexander Dane had more in common with Space: 1999's Barry Morse, a distinguished British actor embarrassed by his association with a schlocky sci-fi show. And Star Trek never had a preteen boy genius crewmember (though Lost in Space and Galactica 1980 did)....

I think the boy genius in Galaxy Quest was a nod to Wesley Crusher. But I can totally see the line you drew from Buck Rogers S2 to GQ.

As a side note, I recall the TNG episode "Gambit" (with glorious schlock-show guest villiain Richard Lynch!) having exactly the same 1980's cheesy sci-fi vibe, especially aboard the alien ship that Picard infiltrated. It was "exact" and groan-worthy, but not intentional.

Good insight bringing in Barry Morse, btw. I never thought of him in this context, and his Starlog interview (issue 221) was strongly critical of the scripting on Space: 1999. It reminded me of John Hoyt (Dr. Boyce) slamming "The Cage" as a poorly-written show (Starlog issue 113). And this was under similar circumstances, being an older cast member who got written out of a sci-fi show.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Here's the thing, though (quoting from my blog): I realized a while back that Buck Rogers season 2 was the closest thing in real life to the series within the movie Galaxy Quest. Within the film’s reality, the Galaxy Quest series ran from 1979-82, while Buck Rogers ran from 1979-81. Both GQ and BR S2 were Star Trek-like starship adventure series with a macho male lead whose actor tended to hog the spotlight (Taggart/Buck), his stoic alien warrior best friend who’s the last survivor of a slaughtered people (Dr. Lazarus/Hawk), and a somewhat marginalized token female lead/love interest with a vaguely defined shipboard role (Tawny/Wilma). Meanwhile, Laredo, the child prodigy navigator of the Protector, has always strongly reminded me of Gary Coleman’s Hieronymous Fox from Buck season 1. Everyone assumes that Galaxy Quest is just a Star Trek parody, and to a large extent it obviously is; but if it isn’t deliberately based on Buck Rogers as well, then it’s a staggering coincidence, given the sheer number of strong parallels.

...Aren't you the guy who's always arguing that coincidence is not causation?

 

[Shawnster]

I think allowances should be made for the "kiddie" elements in TAS. It was animated and on Saturday mornings. There was (and is, in the US) a mindset that animation automatically means kiddie. Science fiction was often viewed as kiddie. Despite the more juvenile elements, TAS is quite mature and definitely not a typical kiddie show.

 

[Christopher]

I think allowances should be made for the "kiddie" elements in TAS. It was animated and on Saturday mornings. There was (and is, in the US) a mindset that animation automatically means kiddie. Science fiction was often viewed as kiddie. Despite the more juvenile elements, TAS is quite mature and definitely not a typical kiddie show.

As I keep saying, there's nothing intrinsically "kiddie" about TAS beyond a reduction in sex and violence relative to TOS. Its fanciful elements were no more fanciful than things in TOS like giant amoebas and space wizards and Greek gods and gangster planets. Hell, TOS featured multiple episodes involving superpowered children of one sort or another -- "Charlie X," "Miri," "The Squire of Gothos," "And the Children Shall Lead" -- while TAS had only two episodes that involved children in any capacity, "Yesteryear" and "The Counter-Clock Incident." And TAS had none of the "kiddie" elements you'd find in its contemporary Saturday morning shows, like teen heroes, cute animal or magic-alien sidekicks, musical interludes, tag scenes where the characters drove home the moral of the week to the audience, etc. TAS did the same kinds of stories that TOS did, toning down the onscreen violence but still talking about serious and adult ideas -- war, planetary annihilation, self-destruction to stop a deadly threat, diseases that killed thousands, civilizations on the brink of extinction, suicide bombers, some pretty intense stuff. Compare that to stuff like Scooby-Doo, Fat Albert, Super Friends, Speed Buggy, Hong Kong Phooey, Shazam!, The New Adventures of Gilligan, Partridge Family 2200 A.D., and The Harlem Globetrotters Popcorn Machine. Those shows were "kiddie." TAS had very little in common with them beyond limited animation.

The only other contemporary or near-contemporary Saturday morning shows I can think of that approached the level of TAS's writing were maybe Land of the Lost (from what I hear about it) and Return to the Planet of the Apes. But both of those came after TAS. When it began, it was one of a kind. Star Trek did not reduce its intelligence or maturity to the level of Saturday morning kidvid. Rather, it tried to raise the intelligence and maturity of Saturday morning kidvid to its level, and it may have paved the way for LotL and RttPotA to follow suit.

 

[Herbert]

Animated shows had already been trialed in prime time, (Flinstones, Jonny Quest) I wonder why Star Trek animated wasn't given a try in prime time, especially considering that it was Star Trek.

 

[Shawnster]

As I keep saying, there's nothing intrinsically "kiddie" about TAS beyond a reduction in sex and violence relative to TOS.

The way the glommer ran at one point was very kiddie/Scooby-Do/cartoonish. Some of the animation choices were kiddie/cartoonish.

http://tas.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/blu-ray/105-BR/moretribblesmoretroubleshd0447.jpg

 

[Christopher]

The way the glommer ran at one point was very kiddie/Scooby-Do/cartoonish. Some of the animation choices were kiddie/cartoonish.

Of course it was animated humorously, since it was a humor beat. And of course it was animated in the style that the people doing the animation were used to doing. But it's a non sequitur to equate comedy with childishness. Look at a risque cartoon like Tex Avery's Red Hot Riding Hood. Heck, look at The Simpsons. It's entirely possible to be cartoonish and adult at the same time.

Besides, I was talking about the writing of the show, the ideas and storytelling that drove it. Nobody's denied that TAS looked similar to its contemporaries, or that its production values were similar. The difference was in the stories and the themes. TAS was written on the same level as TOS, sex and violence aside. It was not written on the same level as Scooby-Doo.

 

[Redfern]

Concerning the glommer, lest people forget, earlier in the episode, Cyrano Jones "demonstrates" the creature by releasing it among a group of tribbles at his feet. The predator leaps upon one of the fuzzballs; the camera cuts to McCoy observing, "Well, at least it's neat," and then we cut back to the creature, one less tribble in the pile. Yes, it took place off camera, specifically below frame, but it is heavily implied that the glommer just ate a tribble, likely stretching its body over the prey species like an octopus. Basically, it's the equivalent of a scene with a snake among a group of mice. A cute lil' critter was KILLED in that sequence, rather serious fare for Saturday morning programming in 1973.

 

[Christopher]

There was a lot of implied, threatened, and off-camera violence and death in TAS. Many episodes referred to deaths that had happened before the story, often on a massive scale -- the self-destruction of the pod ship in "Beyond the Farthest Star"; the implication that the cloud creature in "One of Our Planets is Missing" had destroyed entire inhabited worlds without realizing it; the 150 years' worth of serial murders that the Taurean women had committed (once every 27 years, meaning they'd done it about six times before); the near-extinction of the Phylosians; the implicit extinction of the air-breathers of Argo; the death of the shore leave planet's Keeper; the deaths of three members of the Ariel crew in the Lactran zoo; the murder of the three prior expeditions sent to recover the Soul of Alar; and the death of nearly the entire population of Dramia II from the auroral plague. That's a lot of death, destruction, and murder, even if none of it was onscreen. Although the Kzinti were killed onscreen in "The Slaver Weapon," uniquely for TAS and quite rare in Filmation's repertoire.