I don't understand the whole "honor" thing with Klingons.

[at Quark's]

My take is that the only Klingon who really believes in their code of honor is Worf. And he was raised on Earth by humans, with (assumed) minor interaction with his own people growing up, so his definition of 'Klingon Honor' is almost wholely book-learned, and the real deal seldom live up to the ideal. Worf himself is probably often disappointed in his own people for not being everything that he personally aspires to be: the ultimate ultra-Klingon Klingon.

I agree with this. A friend of mine once told me he thought of Worf as an example of a certain type of second generation immigrants: those that attempt to identify with their parent's country of origin, but in a hyper-orthodox way, a way that hasn't been the majority culture in that country for at least a generation, if it even ever was at all.

Also, the words of Ezri come to mind, from DS9 S7 ep Tacking into the Wind. (source: http://www.st-minutiae.com/resources/scripts/572.txt )

EZRI: I think the situation with Gowron is just a symptom of a deeper problem. The Klingon Empire is dying. And I think it deserves to die.

WORF: You're right. I don't like it.

EZRI: Don't get me wrong, I'm really touched that you still consider me a member of the House of Martok... but I tend to look at the Empire with a little more skepticism than Curzon or Jadzia did. I see a society in deep denial about itself. We're talking about a warrior culture that prides itself on maintaining centuries-old traditions of honor and integrity... but in reality, it's willing to accept corruption at the highest level.

WORF: You're overstating your case.

EZRI: Am I? Who was the last leader of the High Council that you respected? Has there even been one?

<His silence speaks volumes.>

EZRI: How many times have you had to help cover up the crimes of Klingon leaders because someone told you it was for the "good of the Empire?" I know this sounds harsh, but...the truth is, you've been willing to accept a government you know is corrupt. Gowron is just the latest example. Worf, you're one of the most honorable and decent men I've ever met... and if you're willing to tolerate men like Gowron, what hope is there for the Empire?

<Off Worf's expression as he realizes that she may be right...>

 

[borgboy]

I love Ezri's speech about the state of Klingon honor. It was a really refreshing perspective after years of slavish respect from Jadzia.

 

[cultcross]

"Honour" can mean a lot of different things, not all of them what we would call good or ethical. Some people today believe that 'honour' requires the murder of a daughter who tries to divorce. Less extreme, but defending 'the honour' of your girlfriend or mother or something after a verbal insult leads to completely unnecessary fights every weekend evening in town. Doing things for 'honour' can involve a lot of avoidable violence.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Morality makes hypocrites of us all.

 

[stardream]

I agree with this. A friend of mine once told me he thought of Worf as an example of a certain type of second generation immigrants: those that attempt to identify with their parent's country of origin, but in a hyper-orthodox way, a way that hasn't been the majority culture in that country for at least a generation, if it even ever was at all.

Also, the words of Ezri come to mind, from DS9 S7 ep Tacking into the Wind. (source: http://www.st-minutiae.com/resources/scripts/572.txt )

I see this sort of thing among Native American descendants all the time. Great granddad married a NI woman (or the other way round). Maybe the family hasn't lived on the reservation for a generation or so (although they might possibly keep in contact with the relatives there) but for the most part, they don't identify as 'Natives....but there will always be that ONE cousin who goes hyper about his or her 'heritage'.

 

[Elder Knight]

Morality makes hypocrites of us all.

"Hypocrisy is the homage that vice pays to virtue." -- Francois de La Rochefoucauld

 

[TwoJakes]

I love Ezri's speech about the state of Klingon honor.

That speech is similar to so many in TV, movies and novels where a discussion or argument between two or more people is written by a single individual. Before it even starts Erzi is predetermined to win, Worf with his mindset should have easily (from his prospective) verbally disassembled Erzi's talking points.

But he didn't, because the writer wouldn't "allow" him to do so. Worf is completely out of character in this scene.

 

[borgboy]

In my opinion Ezri won that argument because she was right.

 

[Kor]

Worf's dialog in that scene somehow reminds me of his moronic "It's you!" line in Nemesis.

Kor